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Yes. Dosakkhayo’s above comment provides some critical insights. Let me expand on that a bit more.
- One’s physical and mental bodies arise according to the type of kamma responsible for bringing this existence (bhava) and birth (jati.)
- For example, a pig is born according to lowly, immoral actions done as a human. Such kamma (probably done with greed) produces an existence that likes “lowly tastes.” Thus, eating garbage/feces produces an “enticing sanna” in a pig. However, that “distorted sanna” cannot lead to strong immoral deeds (akusala kamma) in a pig (or any being in an apaya).
- Strong javana cittas that can bring good or bad outcomes can arise mostly in humans. This is a key nugget from Abhidhamma.
- Now, a human bhava (and jati with a physical body) arises due to a “good kamma vipaka” (via punna abhisankhara), but still “contaminated with kama raga or craving for sensual pleasures.” Therefore, the human body produces an “enticing sanna” only for sugar, cake, pizza, etc., but NOT for garbage/feces. Yet, if a human engages in immoral deeds to acquire such tasty foods by engaging in “lowly deeds” (like stealing or taking bribes, for example) on a regular basis, that can lead to acquiring enough akusala kamma to bring a “pig birth” via a “pig existence.”
A key point is that the “distorted sanna” is according to the birth.
- Beings in different realms are born with corresponding “distorted sanna” built-in.
- In another example, rupavacara Brahmas automatically generate “enticing sanna” with their “jhanic thoughts.” Their existence arose due to the cultivation of jhana as humans.
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I will say three things to consider:
1. Keeping the mind focused on the breath (or a water bowl, ball of clay, etc., as in mundane versions of kasina meditation) can stop it from wandering into sensual, angry, or ignorant thoughts. The latter three things cause a mind to be agitated and stressful.
- Therefore, I agree that forcefully keeping the mind on a “neutral object” will stop the mind’s agitation and have a calming effect (Samatha.)
- If one lives a moral, simple life (i.e., abstain from akusala kamma over a long time) while simultaneously engaging in such mundane techniques (breath, kasina), one can even attain “mundane jhanas.”
- That is what ancient yogis did. They went deep into jungles (to be away from women and other sensual attractions), lived simple lives, and cultivated anariya jhana using the breath or mundane kasina techniques. So, they will be reborn in a Brahma realm and live a peaceful life there. But at the end of that lifetime, they will return to kama loka and can be reborn in the apayas. So, it is a temporary solution.
2. The above procedure cannot cultivate the wisdom (panna) necessary to attain any magga phala.
- I would love for anyone to explain how that could be possible.
3. Focusing the mind on examining Dhamma concepts will address both of the above issues. This is called “insight meditation” or Vipassanā.
- It will keep the mind away from sensual, angry, or ignorant thoughts and help to calm it (Samatha).
- It will cultivate wisdom (panna) that will remove ingrained defilements (samyojana/anusaya) from the mind and lead to magga phala.
- With the cultivation of panna, one’s mind automatically abstains from akusala kamma. Thus, one may automatically enter Ariya jhana with this practice. Even in the absence of entering any jhana, one is certain to attain magga phala.
- However, the time taken will depend on each person. Do not expect quick results.
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The goal of a Buddhist is to attain magga phala and end the suffering in the rebirth process!
- Regarding #2, some say, “Do the breath meditation to calm the mind,” and then do Vipassanā.
- Of course, that will work if they understand how to do Vipassanā. But my observation (observing those who attend meditation retreats like Goenka-type) is that they never do real Vipassanā. Most of such programs lead to only Samatha. Does anyone know of someone who has attained a magga phala by attending such “meditation retreats”?
P.S. It is quite likely that anyone who translates “Ānāpānapabba” as “Section on Respiration” will not know how to do Vipassanā!
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“But I also believe that we cannot rule out observing the breath as a tool to gain insight.”
- OK. I have no more comments.
I see. Yes. That is a good point.
- However, we don’t understand how nature works in many situations.
- When Arahant Mahinda revived Buddha Dhamma in Sri Lanka, he wrote numerous “Sinhala Atthakatha” which are Commentaries (like Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga or even this website). However, all those disappeared during the “dark period” that probably started before Buddhaghosa came to Sri Lanka to write Visudhimagga. Even though the Tipitaka (or a significant portion of the Tipitaka) survived, those Sinhala Atthakatha completely disappeared. I have discussed some of it in “Incorrect Theravada Interpretations – Historical Timeline.”
- We do not know how the teachings will (i) go underground (like in the above case) for a while or (ii) disappear entirely at the end of Buddha Gotama’s Buddha Sasana. This website or similar “Commentaries” will have no trace left in one of those two cases.
- Many civilizations seem to have disappeared due to natural events such as floods, a comet strike, etc. Scientists believe such a comet impact destroyed most of life on Earth about 60 million years ago when the dinosaurs were also wiped out. The last such “cataclysmic event” seems to have happened about 12,000 years ago: “Younger Dryas impact hypothesis.” This event may not have been as bad as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs.
- There is much evidence that there was an advanced civilization worldwide before that which built pyramids (not only in Egypt but in many parts of the world) and many other sophisticated structures that have survived. I discussed some of it in “Back to Builders of the Ancient Mysteries (BAM) – Full Movie, Documentary.
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Under #1: From your reference “Pāli Tipiṭaka – English Publication – Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta” I am quoting the following:
- At the beginning, “Ānāpānapabba” is translated as “Section on Respiration.” In that section, it says: “I am breathing in a deep breath.” Breathing out a deep breath, he understands properly: “I am breathing out a deep breath.” Breathing in a shallow breath, he understands properly: “I am breathing in a shallow breath.” Breathing out a shallow breath, he understands properly: “I am breathing out a shallow breath.”
- I don’t think we can take that translation seriously. What do you think?
You asked: “If kayanupassana is about controlling our actions, then why are there the sections on patikulamanasikāra pabba, dhātumanasikāra pabba, and navasivatika pabba in the same kayanupassana section?”
- That is a good question.
- The word “kaya” (“collection of parts”) can mean the physical body as well as the panca upadanakkhandha (PUK) (commonly translated as “grasping five aggregates.”)
- However, in most suttas, by “kaya” the Buddha referred to PUK.
- As you pointed out, a small part of the Satipatthana Sutta is allocated to patikulamanasikāra pabba, dhātumanasikāra pabba, and navasivatika pabba (focused on the physical body.)
- As I have mentioned many times, a word can have several meanings, depending on the context. With practice, one can determine which meaning should be used in a given context.
You wrote (under #2): “In this sense, though the translation by “Pali Tipitaka” may have some errors, it is more consistent because the first 3: kaya, vedana, cittanupassana are all about observing only. I think the general idea is to see the body as it is, eg observe the breath, observe how it moves, observe what it is made of, observe how it decays, and then realise that the body is like this. Same goes for vedana and cittanupassana where you only observe and find out what it is.”
- Satipatthana is definitely not about just observing.
- It is about “being mindful” about how (i) the PUK arises, (ii) how vedana (and sanna) turn into “mind-made vedana” or “samphassa-ja-vedana“, (iii) how citta (thoughts) involving raga, dosa, moha arise, and (iv) making connections to above with Paticca Samuppada, anicca, dukkha, anatta, etc. (Of course, it also involves controlling one’s actions, speech, and thoughts based on that understanding.)
- Those are kayanupassana, vedananupassana, cittanupassana, and dhammanupassana.
Under #3: “It seems strange for this to appear in the kayanupassana segment. If it is about thoughts then it should at least be in cittanupassana!”
- That verse involves “kaya” as panca upadanakkhandha (PUK) per the above.
- Here, “So sato va assasati, sato va passasati” can be taken as “Let good thoughts grow, and discard evil thoughts” only in a simple explanation.
- When I wrote those posts, I had not explained how PUK is initiated by sensory inputs. I have started explaining this in recent posts: “Meditation – Deeper Aspects.”
- I will start writing more posts on Satipatthana after completing that series of posts.
- Since vedana and citta are also included in PUK, kayanupassana actually includes how cittas arise with different types of vedana. As we know, PUK includes rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, and vinnana. This is a deeper aspect that I will write about later.
Under #4:
I have not discussed dhammanupassana specifically in that series of posts.
- However, my posts on Paticca Samuppada address most of those issues.
- What you quoted, ” And what, monks, is old age? If there is old age for all kinds of beings in whatever kind of existence, their getting frail and decrepit, the breaking [of their teeth], their becoming grey and wrinkled, the running down of their life span, the deterioration of their sense faculties – this, monks, is called old age” explains jati in Paticca Samuppada.
- I have discussed Paticca Samuppada in detail. See, for example, “Paṭicca Samuppāda in Plain English” and “Paṭicca Samuppāda During a Lifetime.”
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I think the critical issue is in the following statement:
“1) Buddha’s intention was to deliver everything one needs to attain Nibbana to anyone. He would not teach the higher teaching to people who were not ready for them – it’d be a loss of time for both parties. Yet, Buddha declared that he shared with the Sangha all that he knew relevant to getting to the further shore. So, the Sangha got the full teachings, the texts, the keys to interpret the texts, and their meanings.”
The “the keys to interpret the texts” are in the Tipitaka. However, those “keys” are not apparent to anyone else but Ariyas.
- Once the last Sotapanna on Earth dies, that is the end of the current Buddha Sasana. All the books of the Tipitaka will still be there, but there will be no one who can use the “keys” to explain the key concepts.
- A good example is the current situation. Many deep concepts have been hidden for hundreds of years until Waharaka Thero (a “jati Sotapanna“) uncovered many such “keys.” He clarified many critical issues. Even now, most English texts have “Anapanasati” as “breath meditation” and “anicca” restricted to “impermanence.”
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Most of the other questions raised can be explained based on the above issue.
For example, the following comment “I do not understand how was not possible to preserve the patiniddesa. It is not like Buddha partake in developing an extense philosophy. .” does not make sense.
- What the Buddha taught was deeper than any philosophy. It is a “previously unknown worldview” that no mundane philosopher can come up with.
- Please read carefully today’s post, “Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala.” I tried to explain this point there.
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Another statement of skywander: “I do not understand how was not possible to preserve the patiniddesa.”
- It is the same point as above. There are suttas with the patiniddesa explanations. However, that is not apparent to anyone without getting to Samma Ditthi (i.e., at least reaching the Sotapanna stage.)
- P.S. For example, if one starts with the wrong idea that “Anapanasati” is “breath meditation” then no matter how many suttas they read, they will NEVER make any progress. That is obvious because essentially all translators of suttas into English are still doing that. They have not understood the fundamentals! Many of them have translated suttas with niddesa and patiniddesa and have not been able to unlock the “keys” mentioned above.
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I don’t know whether there are questions under:
## all-day meditation”
However, meditation is NOT restricted to “formal meditation,” where one sits in one place and contemplates Dhamma concepts. That is one way and is essential. There is no way that one can engage in akusala during that time. Furthermore, it will help cultivate wisdom (panna), break samyojana, and reach magga phala.
- However, one should also be engaged in meditation all day while doing routine day-to-day activities. That means being mindful of whether one is engaging in akusala kamma. That is one meaning of “Anapanasati.” It is to be noted that there are many levels of akusala kamma. Some, like “killing and stealing,” are easy to catch.
- Even engaging in “excessive sense pleasures” is a lower level of akusala kamma. That may not lead to rebirth in the apayas (when done at lower levels) but will certainly keep one bound to kama loka. These subtle points will become apparent as one cultivates the path.
P.S. I see that Tobi has made some good comments.
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I needed to rewrite an old post to clarify a few critical points. So, this post will be postponed until next week.
I forgot to mention: Please don’t worry about correcting the ” <br />” propping up issue. I am not sure why that happens, but I can take care of it.
Please use a free word-processing program like Word or Google Docs to submit a lengthy comment like this one.
- I started correcting a few things, but I did not want to inadvertently change your meanings, so I stopped. In the future, please take the time to prepare a lengthy comment using a word processor. That will help me and others understand the questions and reply correctly.
I will read the comment and reply later. I hope others will comment in the meantime.
Thank you! Much merits!
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I think you meant to ask, ” Does this mean that one does not need to be listening to a discourse by a Noble Person (an Ariya) to attain the Sotapanna phala moment?“
- Yes. There is no need to be listening to an Ariya to attain the Sotapanna phala moment.
- The requirement is to learn from an Ariya and understand the “previously unknown teachings of a Buddha.”
- When that happens, one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami, who is either a dhammānusārī or a saddhānusārī.
- A dhammānusārī or a saddhānusārī WILL attain the Sotapanna phala moment during that life. That can happen any time, anywhere, while contemplating what they have superficially understood.
- That is what happened to Ven. Cittahattha. He had learned from Ariyas while a bhikkhu and had attained the Sotapanna Anugami stage before he had disrobed for the last time. Then, he attained Sotapanna phala while returning to the monastery to become a bhikkhu for the final time.
I had not made that clear in the following post: “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās.” See #4 and #5 there, which I just revised to make this point clear.
- I think Gad commented on Ven. Cittahattha in another thread. I don’t remember which forum thread it was. The above was discussed there, but I had forgotten to update the above post.
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Of course. Even a Sotapanna may follow rituals they are used to unless it involves immoral deeds. It is likely that some practices did not make sense but were not immoral.
- I don’t know the details of what types of procedures were involved.
- But I think the sutta explains how to engage in Uposata correctly.
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Yes. I think it is important to have a separate post on it. I will try to make it the next post.
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“Uposata” is to dedicate a day once a week or once a month (usually a full Moon day) to try to live like an Arahant, i.e., to abstain from immoral deeds or even engage in “sensual/pleasurable activities,” including sex.
- This is a common practice in Asian Buddhist countries. People spend the whole day in a temple, although it can also be done at home.
Such a practice existed even before Prince Siddhartha attained Buddhahood. It is stated that Queen Mahamaya Devi (Prince Siddhartha’s mother) regularly practiced it.
- It is clear that such a practice originated with Buddha Kassapa, the Buddha before Buddha Gotama.
- Just like concepts like kamma/kamma vipaka also propagated with mundane meanings, that practice was performed with different variations/adoptions by various groups when Prince Siddhartha was born. For example, “nigaṇṭhuposatho” was the practice/rituals adopted by the Jains (followers of Nigaṇṭanathaputta) at that time.
- Apparently, Lady Visākhā followed an incorrect version, and the Buddha explained to her the correct way to practice Uposata in this sutta.
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The sutta doesn’t say not to teach Dhamma; it just says to avoid useless debates.
The English translation is good. There are no “deep concepts” here, and it is straightforward.
“Bhikkhus, don’t get into arguments, such as:
“You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”
- Those types of “debates” are the ones to avoid.
- Just saying, “Your argument is wrong. Mine is correct,” etc., is not beneficial. You only need to present your arguments with evidence from the Tipitaka. There is no need to engage in debates.
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