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I’ve read all the recent posts. Those deal with deeper analysis. I think this kind of approach is quite effective. Also, people who already have a certain level of understanding will get it and make a lot of progress. I could feel that Ven. Lal wrote it very thoughtfully. I appreciate Lal’s efforts in delivering Dhamma. At this point, I just realized it might be too late to introduce what I have done. With the wisdom of hindsight, it was so important for me to proceed with others instead of trying to do everything on my own because there was a limit to the amount of work I could bear. If only I had known that earlier. From now on, I will share my work progress more often.
What has been done so far
I want to tell everyone in the forum how I’ve been so far. Since last year, I’ve been working hard on constructing a Compact Dhamma. In early March of this year, I thought that I finally completed it. However, whenever I thought I was on the verge of last completion to show it to everyone, I found out that the system I created was not a simple form for people to understand, even though Compact Dhamma’s purpose was to provide straightforward explanations for beginners.
Foolishly, every time I met the same matter, I considered it caused by the fact that I had not organized/systemized enough of my explanation yet. So, I cope with it by starting everything from scratch and creating new explanations again and again. I kept setting up a new axiom and proving or demonstrating everything one by one, even basic ones. For this work, I had to study many different areas like advanced mathematics, philosophy of mind, etc, to get some valuable ideas. Sadly, now I have an entirely logical and meticulous system, but no one can understand it because it is too hard.
Though I was able to get a deeper understanding of Dhamma, I couldn’t make any tangible outcomes. Not long ago, I looked back on all my efforts to find out some clues. I remember me at the beginning of this work. At that time, I was interested in two things: (i) using visuals to get across the message and (ii) giving a thorough systemic explanation to get a general survey of it.
I planned a graphic novel and video explaining Dhamma. Shortly, it fell through because I found I was surprisingly bad at drawing. I couldn’t draw even a stick figure. Video making was more difficult. To make a video of fine quality, I had to spend two years just learning the technique. After all, I chose to give up.
Soon, I moved on to another thing. I was starting to formulate a system of Dhamma in Korean so that Korean people could think about it in their native language. This task was not easy either because I always had in mind to share it with everyone in the Forum when it was completed. But translation into English was very difficult for me. I use just one word to say a given concept in Korean. But in English, a lot of sentences are needed. Because there is no concept like 원리 in English. There were a lot of cases like that. I realized that it’s tremendous what Ven. Lal has done, as I was doing it.
So, I decided to set up a system in Korean first and think about how to express it in English later. Then, I became trapped in a spiral of restarting, as I wrote above. That is the main reason why I couldn’t ask questions often in the forum. Thankfully, formulating work has made a lot of progress. I’ll talk about it in detail later.
Literacy and Dhamma
Those trials and errors discouraged me greatly, but they also allowed me to ask many good questions: How can I help people walk the Noble path? Where should I start explaining? How can I explain advanced topics easily? What is a perfect teaching sequence of Dhamma? What is most important in Buddha Dhamma? And now, I can see all the questions converge on one subject: “How to paraphrase Dhamma.”
I was doing it all the time, but I didn’t know exactly what it was. What I was about to do was paraphrase Dhamma so that more people could access it easily. So, I hope we can have some deep discussions about how to teach Dhamma together because it is not only a matter of Dhamma but also a matter of teaching. I think what we’ve been overlooking is that literacy is much more important than we thought in learning and teaching Dhamma.
Literacy is more than the ability to read and write texts. It includes the ability to find what are meaningful questions about a particular topic, to distinguish them from not, to put together information and sum up the meaning, and to conclude by oneself. The attainment of the Sotapanna stage means one can do what I just said without anyone’s help.
Let me explain it with an example. Let’s say John here. He wants to travel to Japan, but he doesn’t know any Japanese. John is not a learning-like person, so he figured out other ways to travel rather than learn Japanese. He decided to buy a very large and expensive book. On one page of the book, English sentences that he wants to speak are written. Japanese sentences corresponding to them are written on the other page. Thanks to the book, John will have a good trip to Japan. But no one will think that John has a lingual knowledge of Japanese, even himself! He could not speak Japanese, not even a word, without the book. If he prepares for the Japanese test, he should study Japanese until he doesn’t need the book to talk in Japanese.
It’s easy for us to see that it is the right purpose to learn something. I saw people apply it to other subjects well, but for some reason, especially when learning Dhamma, they often could not apply it in the same way. Many people who believe that they are trying to live with Dhamma, are doing things that have nothing to do with Dhamma. They just learn how to get used to reading and writing with Pali words, and how to put Pali words into Korean sentences instead of easy words in everyday life. And the more they become good at it, the more they believe they have a better understanding of Buddha Dhamma than before. They follow words, not meaning. They said, ‘We need to live by dhammavinaya’ accustomedly, but only read Tipitaka without understanding, just like in John’s case.
I’m not saying it to blame anyone else. And I don’t believe these people do it because they don’t want to follow Buddha’s teachings either. I’m just describing what really happens to face up to the problem and come up with a solution. I DO believe if we don’t take appropriate measures to the problem of literacy seriously, Dhamma will be distorted again much sooner than we expect.
Any person who learned Dhamma properly should be able to think and choose on their own in their life and ultimately become an Arahant. If someone is learning in a way that doesn’t meet any of it, he/she is making an effort that has nothing to do with Dhamma. We should keep it in mind whether you are learning or teaching. And I don’t think Ven. Lal didn’t point it out. In fact, he has consistently emphasized it.
Surprisingly, we already know a very simple answer to why the whole problem repeatedly arises: Because it is HARD to get critical thinking skills. It is hard to grasp Dhamma concepts truly. In samsara, not knowing something is more natural than knowing something. However, it doesn’t mean we can’t do anything here.
Core Problem and Solution
Let’s come back to the problem that we’re facing now. I was completely mistaken about it before. I thought people had difficulty reading the Pure Dhamma Website because there were too many Pali words in the posts. However, it has nothing to do with using Pali words in posts. The core problem is highly related to the fact that critical thinking skill is not easy to cultivate.
In my opinion, people make wrong efforts because they find it challenging to figure two things out: (a) the meaning of a given Dhamma concept trying to convey, and (b) the meaning of what one understands Dhamma concepts. These things strengthen each other again and again. So I think we(or I) need to start with the most basic level (like what is a worldview, and what is the meaning of learning a worldview) so people don’t get lost in a flood of concepts.
Of course, it is a very laborious task. But I believe we can make it because I’ve already made it.
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It’s too late (4:30 AM), so I need to go to sleep and later back. I think I can post the rest tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.
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I’ve never read those words like purana kamma or nava kamma in the suttas before. (If you don’t mind, could you give me a Tipitaka reference for those words?)
Lal’s answer gave me a lot of things, which are completely different from the previous understanding I had of citta vithi. So before I ask some questions about them, I think we need a process to update information to make things go smoothly. I’m writing it. I think it will be quite long. Please excuse me for keeping you waiting.
I apologize for my mistake. I think I have a bad habit of omitting too much in communication.
The reason why I think #5 should be revised is that the sentence “The kusala-mūla PS process describes how one can accumulate new “good kamma” that will eventually help us attain Nibbāna by following the Noble Path.” sounds like new kamma bhava are generated through kusala mula PS.
Especially, if one reads it in Korean translation, the meaning becomes very unclear. So I think it needs to be revised.
(i) Only akusala-mula PS processes generate kammic energy.
(ii) Kusala-mula PS processes do not create new kammic energies. They only help remove defilements (i.e., wrong views, perceptions) AND cultivate panna (wisdom or knowledge about how PS processes operate.)
They make the point clear. I appreciate your service. I’m also worried that what I am doing is just nitpicking and has no useful purpose.
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Rereading the second post, I found I wrote it in a very closed manner. I was trying to say that Avyakata PS could also have a namarupa.
Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa
12. Without going into this complex process, only the mindset of the person is changed based on the contact (phassa) of the ārammana with the gati of the individual.
- We note here that there are no “nāmarūpa” involved here, but just “nāma“. This is a deeper point, but the generation of “nāmarūpa” involves javana citta which actually performs kamma. In this vipāka cycle, no kamma is done by the mind; the mind just matches the “picture” that it received against one’s gati, and automatically recognizes if it is an object that one likes/dislikes.
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In #37674
Lal said:
1. It(Paṭiccasamuppāda vibhaṅga) describes in detail the 16 steps for an akusala mula PS. The description starts in section 2. Abhidhammabhājanīya.
– It is not easy to follow those 16 cycles. There are 4 cycles each for 2.1. Paccayacatukka, 2.2. Hetucatukka, 2.3. Sampayuttacatukka, 2.4. Aññamaññacatukka.
– That means for four types of paccaya: paccaya, hetu, sampayutta, Aññamañña.2. Then there are four cycles (catukka) within each of those. That is how it becomes 16 cycles!
– That analysis takes up most of the rest of the section.
– So, it provides that VERY DETAILED analysis ONLY for the akusala-mula PS.3. The point is that for Kusala-mula PS, it describes only the first of the 16 cycles!
– That is why it has only “nama”: “..viññāṇa paccayā nāmaṁ, nāma paccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṁ.”
– The other steps ending with:..viññāṇa paccayā nāmarūpaṁ, nāmarūpa paccayā saḷāyatanaṁ” are NOT explained again, because they proceed similarly to the case of Akusala-mula PS.–
I think it is probably possible that the “viññāṇa paccayā nāmaṃ, nāma paccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṃ” step of avyākata PS is the same as Kusala mula PS. If it is, the expression of vibhanga “viññāṇa paccayā nāmaṃ” does not mean that there is no nāmarūpa in avyākata PS.
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#1 Thus, this type of “nāmarupa” is NOT associated with avijjā and is NOT the same “nāmarupa” that appears in “viññāṇa paccayā nāmarupa” in Paṭicca Samuppāda. We will discuss that type of nāmarupa in the next post.
Finally, considering the above explanation in the recently written post, we can draw the following conclusions. The “vinnana paccaya namarupa” step can be analyzed in many ways. In particular, the namarupa of akusala/kusala PS and avyakata PS are very different and should be distinguished. But nevertheless, ALL PS can have namarupa.
Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa
#5. All PS processes can be broadly divided into three categories:
- What we will discuss in this post is how past kamma vipāka bring in sense inputs via avyākata (avyākruta) PS process, and also automatically generate manō saṅkhāra.
- Then akusala-mūla PS processes may contribute to generating new kamma that extends the rebirth process. These also start within seconds, but as mentioned above, we can catch and stop them if we are mindful (Satipaṭṭhāna/Ānapāna).
- The kusala-mūla PS process describes how one can accumulate new “good kamma” that will eventually help us attain Nibbāna by following the Noble Path. If the kamma vipāka generated such a “good PS” process, we should cultivate those. That is also part of Satipaṭṭhāna/Ānapāna.
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But in #37657
Tobias asked: “Do you say that new kamma bhava is accumulated while doing kusala kamma?”
No. The Kusala-mula PS does not accumulate kamma bhava.
– But it ELEVATES one to higher bhava, by eliminating the ability to be “hooked into” lower bhava, as you wrote in the later (last) comment.–
Also, in #37646 Tobias said:
We should remind ourselves that kusala kamma is neither dark nor bright with neither-dark-nor-bright results, it is kamma that leads to the destruction of defilements. Thus kusala kamma will not add to kamma bhava.
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So, I think #5 should be revised.
On second thought, it really is. I also read “Difference Between Dhammā and Saṅkhāra” too. Now I know you are right. Thank you.OK. I can’t wait to read the posts! Thank you lal.
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Do I Have “A Mind” That Is Fixed and “Mine”?
8. When an EM wave (kiraṇa) packet arrives at the cakkhu pasāda, it hits the hadaya vatthu and “transfers” that visual information about the tree to the mind. The mind is born momentarily during this transition for the duration of that signal.
This is what is meant by “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.”
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In that context, “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.” shows how to be aware world by indriya.
But when we see with san, it shows how to be aware world by ayatana.
The cakkhu become cakkayatana and rupa become rupayatana.
For example, two people with different tastes read the same book.
John didn’t like what the main character did at the end. But Mary thought it was the best ending.
They both read the same letters, but they took them differently.
So, in this case, we can say that they’re not looking at the same thing.
This is why rupa ayatana is all personal and mental.
It is made by the mind and reflects one’s personal preferences(gati, anusaya).
The problem has been solved. I have no more questions on this topic. Thank you to Lal, Jorg, LDF, and Lang.
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Today, I solved many problems after calm and slow deliberation. Below is what I have learned so far. Please let me know if there’s anything wrong.
1. Manāyatana and dhammāyatana correspond to vedanākkhandho saññākkhandho saṅkhārakkhandho viññāṇakkhandho.
I said: Rupakkhandha contains manāyatana? – Lal said: No.
2. Dasa rūpaāyatanāna, namely cakkhāyatanaṁ, rūpāyatanaṁ, sotāyatanaṁ, saddāyatanaṁ, ghānāyatanaṁ, gandhāyatanaṁ, jivhāyatanaṁ, rasāyatanaṁ, kāyāyatanaṁ, and phoṭṭhabbāyatanaṁ correspond to rupakkhandha. See; Pe 6
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Therefore, #6 should be revised.
“That makes sense since the six internal and five external āyatana takes into account the rupakkhandha.”
->”That makes sense since the five internal and five external āyatana takes into account the rupakkhandha.”
“The sixth external āyatana (dhammā) incorporates the four mental aggregates.”
-> “The sixth internal and external āyatana incorporates the four mental aggregates.”
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3. There are two main types of rūpa that appear in suttā.<br />
3-1 The first type of rūpa refers to matter and energy. It is suddhāṭhaka (apo, tejo, vayo, pathavi, akasa) and dhammā rūpa below it. See “Bhūta and Yathābhūta – What Do They Really Mean“<br />
3-2 The second rūpa is a mental impression created by the mind in the process of living being experiencing the first rūpa. It is not rūpa as matter and energy. All of the rupa that appear in the context referring to rupakkhandha is this second case.4. There are two stages of contamination of the mind.<br />
4-1 The first contamination occurs to all beings who have not attained Arahanthood. It is nine stages of contamination of citta. That’s why vipaka vinnana, experienced by all beings other than Arahant, is also contaminated. In this case, there is no tanha and kamma vinnana.4-2 The second contamination occurs only when the given arammana matches the one’s sangati. This is the “tiṇṇaṁ saṅgati phasso” case, which can lead to generating kamma vinnana.
5. Arahant is free of both contaminations. That’s because arahant completed yathābhūta ñāna. Therefore, arahant has no ayatana.
5-1 Both akusala mula PS and kusala mula PS include ayatana. It doesn’t happen to Arahant either of these.<br />
5-2 The reason ayatana occurs in both processes is to additionally focus on. In akusala mula PS, one focus on arammana to enjoy it (ayatana with san). On the other hand, ayatana in kusala mula PS is like zeroing in to understand in a way consistent with the laws of nature. (So there is no san in kusala mula ayatana) Therefore, in the case of Arahant, ayatana is not required. Because the zero adjustment process has been completed. i.e. The cultivation of yath̃bhūtanana has been completed.6. Experience is possible even after achieving the Arahantship. So Arahant has pancakkhandha. And Arahant’s mind would not allow any contamination. So, Arahant’s pancakkhandha can not be contaminated. Now, here is the question. Arahant’s pancakkhandha can not be called ayatana. Because there is no contaminant at all. Also, “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhuviññāṇaṁ” can not refer to the experience process of Arahant by the same reasoning. Then what should it be called?
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I think I’ve read a post distinguishing between paticca and paccya to describe the process. It said: paticca refers to only contaminated processes and paccya refers to both contaminated and non-contaminated, but I can’t remember.
