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Lal
KeymasterYes. It does.
- The usage of the word “self” must be understood.
The quoted sentence is in #13 of that post and is as follows:
“The question is not whether there is a “self” or not. Is it wise to think that it is worthwhile to have the perception of a “self” and do things only for the pleasure of the “self”? If born a dog, would it be the same self? But if one does lowly deeds that a dog does (say defecating in public, having sex with children, etc.), one could be born a dog. The wrong perception of a “self” can lead to immoral actions and suffering in future lives. “
- I made that comment referring to an “unchanging self” (like a soul) in that sentence.
- If there is an “unchanging self” (like a soul), one cannot attain Nibbana, i.e., stop the rebirth process.
- Instead, a given “lifestream” gets a rebirth based on the type of (abhi)sankhara cultivated with avijja. When avijja is removed from a mind (with the comprehension of the Buddha’s worldview or the Four Noble Truths), that Paticca Samuppada process stops, i.e., no more “upadana paccaya bhava” and “bhava paccaya jati.”
P.S. I revised the above-quoted paragraph as follows to make it more clear:
“The question is not whether there is a “self” or not. Is it wise to think that it is worthwhile to have the perception of a “self” and do things only for the pleasure of the “self”? If born a dog, would that dog have the same “self”? But if one does lowly deeds that a dog does (say defecating in public, having sex with children, etc.), one could be born a dog. The wrong perception of an “unchanging self” can lead to immoral actions and suffering in future lives.”
Lal
Keymaster1. Yes. Repetition is there, but it seems to serve different purposes. Sometimes, similar suttas can be found in different Nikayas, for example, in Samyutta Nikaya and Anguttara Nikaya. Before the Tipitaka was written down, it was transmitted orally over roughly 500 years. Groups of bhikkhus memorized different Nikayas. When a Buddhist Council (Sangayana) was held, they all recited the whole Tipitaka to ensure the overlapping parts were consistent. From another angle, repetition makes it easier to memorize, and repeated recitals with understanding make it easier to absorb the concepts.
2. It is true that Buddha Dhamma is not a religion in the traditional sense. It is a worldview that shows the world’s working in great detail, showing how suffering arises and how one can be free of that suffering. The Buddha described that worldview in great detail in Abhidhamma. It is the Grand Unified Theory that Einstein pursued until his death, and scientists today are still pursuing it. But they will never get there by focusing on material phenomena. The fundamental unit of matter is not an atom or a quark but a suddhatthaka (a billion times smaller than an atom) created by the mind! See “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka.” While scientists will still make more progress (in mundane ways, coming up with new gadgets, etc.), they will never be able to discover anything about the mind.
- I hope to live long enough to explain the Abhidhamma theory in English. Hopefully, that will pique the interest of more scientists and philosophers and eventually show the world how precious Buddha Dhamma is. I feel bad for all those bright minds wasting their time pursuing material phenomena. Human birth is rare. To be born human within a Buddha Sasana is even more rare. Most people do not know they are wasting an opportunity they may never again get for billions (may be trillions) of years.
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Lal
KeymasterJorg sent me his revised document to be posted:
“What is True Ānāpānasati & Satipaṭṭhāna (Vipassana)?“
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Lal
Keymaster“Sex” is not explicitly mentioned in the Tipitaka regarding Devas. However, there are accounts of male Devas with many female Devas. For example, the king of one Deva realm, Sakka, has many female Devas.
- Kama raga includes craving all five types of sensory pleasures. All beings in the 11 realms of kama loka have kama raga.
Yes. Deva births are opapatika births. Female Devas don’t get pregnant and deliver babies.
Lal
KeymasterIt can be analyzed in the following way.
1. All our thoughts, speech, and actions are based on sensory inputs (arammana.)
- Based on those sensory inputs, we engage in unwise actions that accumulate kamma leading to future vipaka, including rebirths in this “suffering-filled world.”
2. We are born human because we like specific sensory inputs (sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and bodily pleasures). Some of them are shared with other realms, especially in kama loka. For example, animals and Devas also crave sex.
3. As explained in Abhidhamma, all sensory contacts (except bodily contacts like injuries) are “neutral,” i.e., sights, sounds, etc, cannot lead to sukha/dukkha vedana.
- However, that initial sensory contact comes with a “built-in distorted sanna” like the sweetness of sugar or the beauty of a woman. That is how a human body is made by kamma vipaka. Thus, an Arahant gets the same “distorted sanna.“ That is the beginning of our attachments to sensory inputs. Of course, there are more details. Being unaware of this mechanism is ignorance (moha/avijja.)
- Let us focus on the “beauty of a woman” for a man. As long as one has “kama raga anusaya/samyojana,” one will attach to that sanna depending on one’s preferences. That is the root cause of greed.
4. Now, suppose man X falls in love with that woman. The more he meets the woman, the desire to “have her” gets stronger with the cultivation of mano and vaci abhisankhara.
- But she falls for another man (Y), and X gets angry and decides to kill Y. The root cause for that anger (dosa) was the desire for the woman (greed). Thus, greed and anger go together. Dosa is a more robust version of patigha. In general, kama raga and patigha go together.
5. Both lobha and dosa arise (as we saw above) because X has not heard (janato) and understood (passato) the above explanation by the Buddha. That is ignorance (moha or avijja.)
- Regarding janato/passato, see “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.“
6. Thus, the order is: moha/avijja, lobha/raga, dosa/patigha. Ignorance of Buddha’s teachings is the root cause.
- The mechanism of the arising of “distorted sanna” (and how that leads to “samphassa-ja-vedana” or “mind-made vedana” which in turn leads to attachment/craving) was addressed in “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).”
- I will explain it further in upcoming posts.
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Lal
KeymasterThank you, Seng Kiat!
Lal
KeymasterArrogance exists because of the perception of “me” and “mine.”
- So, it disappears completely only at the Arahant stage when the “asmi mana” (or “mana“) anusaya/samyojana is removed.
- However, it decreases as one advances on the path at the Sotapanna, Sakadagami, and Anagami stages.
‘ahaṅkāramamaṅkāramānānusaya’ = ahaṅkāra mamaṅkāra māna anusaya
- “Ahankāra” (aham kāra) and “mamankāra” (mama kāra) originate with “me” (aham) or “mine” (mama.)
- That perception (saññā) will be there as long as māna anusaya is there.
- P.S. But the wrong view (ditthi) about a “me” or “mine” goes away with the removal of sakkaya ditthi at the Sotapanna stage.
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Lal
KeymasterWe cannot help it that others think of us that way. Such issues arise because of their wrong views, i.e., they have not yet heard or understood Buddha Dhamma.
- The only thing we can do is avoid arguing with them. Arguing will certainly anger them and be detrimental to them.
- So, my advice is to politely refuse to engage in social activities you do not wish to participate in. It is best to give an excuse that you have other commitments.
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Lal
KeymasterThanks for the reference on AN 2.36.
- This is the first time I have encountered the terms “ajjhatta samyojana” and “bahidda samyojana.”
- I did a search and did not see any other sutta with those terms.
- Other than the usage of those “unusual terms,” the meanings are the same, i.e., “ajjhatta samyojana” = orambhagiya samyojana and “bahidda samyojana” = uddhambhagiya samyojana.
- However, I do not see a connection between those and ajjhatta vinnana and bahidda vinnana.
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The quoted statement, “’paṭisaṃvedī’ or “paṭisanvedi” (“paṭi + “san” + “vedi“) means vedana due to bonds with “san” becoming apparent” is correct.
- The verse, “Nāhaṁ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṁ kammānaṁ katānaṁ upacitānaṁ appaṭisaṁveditvā byantībhāvaṁ vadāmi,” appears in several suttas including “Paṭhamasañcetanika Sutta (AN 10.217)“ and “Karajakāya Sutta (AN 10.219).”
- The first sutta was discussed in “Paṭhamasañcetanika Sutta (AN 10.217),” and a link is provided to the previous discussion on the second sutta.
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Per the above, one cannot attain the Arahant stage without “patisamvedi” taking place.
- That is what is meant by “‘Sabbakāyapaṭisaṁvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṁvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati” in the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22).”
- Also see #7 of the post “Kāyānupassanā – The Section on Habits (Sampajanapabba)“
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Lal
KeymasterQ1: There are several aspects to consider:
1. “Javana power” in javana citta increases with each subsequent javana citta in a given citta vithi.
- Then, in the second citta vithi, the same happens. But the first javana citta in the second citta vithi is STRONGER than the first javana citta in the first citta vithi.
- That process holds for all subsequent citta vithi.
- Thus, one should see that javana power increases with each second/minute one is focused on that arammana.
- Always think using examples. Watch a person (even oneself) getting angrier by the minute. In an argument, both people will get angrier the more they stay in that argument. In another example, one sees a beautiful woman. If one keeps looking at her, lusty thoughts keep growing.
2. The suttas describe the “growth of attachment” differently. Of course, both are related.
- The sutta version is explained, for example, in the “Sanidāna Sutta (SN 14.12).“ The following is extracted from #10 of the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation”:
“10. The “Sanidāna Sutta (SN 14.12)“ points out the general sequence of steps involved in kamma accumulation based on any sensory input in kāma loka. We discussed that in the post “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment.”
- “Kāma dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāma saññā, kāma saññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma saṅkappo, kāma saṅkappaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmacchando, kāmacchandaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma pariḷāho, kāma pariḷāhaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma pariyesanā.” OR “Attachment to kāma dhātu leads to kāma saññā, attachment to kāma saññā leads to kāma saṅkappa, attachment to kāma saṅkappa leads to kāmacchanda..and so on to kāma pariyesanā.“
Here, the time sequence is Kāma dhātu to kāma saññā (“distorted saññā”) to kāma saṅkappa (initial thoughts with a low level of kama raga ) that automatically arise due to anusaya/samyojana) to stronger kāmacchanda (getting “blinded by kama raga“) to even stronger kāma pariḷāha (“burning with kama raga” and trying to fulfill one’s desires ASAP) to kāma pariyesanā (urgently thinking about various ways to fulfill the desire.)
- A person would engage in various verbal and bodily activities by the end. One could be tempted to engage in verbal harassment, stealing, raping, killing, etc, depending on the situation.
- See “Kāmaccandha and Icca – Being Blinded by Cravings.”
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Q2: What are ” bahidda samyojana”? I am not aware of such a concept.
- Rupa raga, arupa raga, mana, uddacca, avijja are the five higher samyojana (removed at the Arahant stage). There are three samyojana (sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa) removed at the Sotapanna stage and two (kama raga, patigha) removed at the Anagami stage.
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Lal
KeymasterYes. A single citta vithi is gone in a split second. The Buddha said billions of citta vithi can run within the “blink of an eye.”
- When a mind starts focusing on a sensory input (if it is interesting), attachment to it grows with each second.
- That is why one must be mindful and stop “running with it” in the early stages.
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Lal
KeymasterYes. Buddhists understand that such activities are meaningless and only bind oneself to kama loka.
- Watching movies (without educational value) for entertainment, playing video games, etc., belong in the same category.
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Lal
KeymasterYes. That video is an example of one aspect of the anicca nature.
- More examples in “Anicca – Inability to Keep What We Like.”
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Lal
KeymasterI have revised the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation” per the above discussion.
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June 24, 2024 at 11:24 am in reply to: Post on “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” #50465Lal
KeymasterAll akusala kamma start as mano sankhara. The following is important to know in reference to the “javana citta analysis” you are investigating.
- Once the mind decides to act on an arammana at the votthapana stage, seven javana cittas flow.
- The attachment to the arammana (and one’s feelings about it) increases with each javana citta up to the fifth and then tapers off in the sixth and the seventh. It is like a runner getting started, accelerating, then slowing down, and stopping at the end.
- First, mano sankharas dominate the first two javana citta. Vaci sankharas start in the third and get stronger in the fourth leading to speech (vaci kamma). The fifth javana is the strongest, and one does kaya kamma with kaya sankhara with the fifth. Then the javana power decreases in the sixth and seventh.
- Also, kammas do not occur with one javana citta. There are millions of such citta vithi per second, and the role of each javana citta gets stronger with time. I tried to explain that in the video conference that we had a few months ago.
Link to the forum thread: “Pure Dhamma zoom meeting!“
- Seng Kiat posted the following notes there on January 14, 2024 at 8:03 pm: Download “Dhamma discussion – 14th January Notes”:
Link: Google Drive
The last (fifth) slide there explains that idea.
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