Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I just updated the post “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa.”
- Also see “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
The Puredhamma post in question is “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa.” This is a deep concept.
1. We can get some insight into the issue by looking at what led to the question in the “Kevaṭṭa Sutta (DN 11).” I have linked to the marker @67.4, where the Buddha refers to the following question asked by a bhikkhu (by the name Kevaḍḍha) at an earlier time: “Where do these four primary elements cease to exist without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?”
- In many suttas, the Buddha refers to Nibbana as “loka nirodha.” Some people interpret “loka nirodha” as the “end of the world,” i.e., where the whole world made of the four primary elements ceases to exist.
- As we can imagine, that is an impossibility. How can not only the Earth but all the stars, etc., in the world cease to exist?
- P.S. Also, even if one looks for a realm without four primary elements, that is not possible either. Even in arupa loka, each Brahma is made of a suddhāṭṭhaka. ANY living entity has to have a “hadaya vatthu,” which is the “seat of the mind.”
2. So, with that misconception, Kevaḍḍha bhikkhu (who had cultivated abhinna powers) went to see various Devas and Brahmas to get an answer to his foolish question. No one could answer and he finally went to see the Mahā Brahmā as stated @ marker 81.2. Mahā Brahmā admitted that he did not know that answer and directed the bhikkhu to the Buddha. @marker 84.1, the sutta states that the bhikkhu went go back to see the Buddha and asked the question.
- @ marker 85.10, the Buddha says he should ask the question in a different way to get a sensible answer.
- “Loka nirodha” for a given person is when the four primary elements find no footing in that person’s mind.
- In other words, this is when one stops generating “namarupa” in the mind, which can lead to rebirth. As we know, any existence is associated with a hadaya vatthu, which is made of the four primary elements AND also kammic energy. When one attains Arahanthood, the “namarupa” formation stops. And that is when the four primary elements find no footing and the rebirth process stops. i.e., “loka nirodha.“
3. So, you may want to read that post again and see whether it is clear. There is more information at “Nāmarūpa Formation,” in particular, the last two posts in that section.
- I wanted to set up the background. That may help to ask questions a bit differently.
- Vinnana is infinite all the time. At Arahanthood, all that happens is the stopping of “kamma vinnana,” where “kammic energy” for future existences is created via “namarupa” formation. A living Arahant experiences “vipaka vinnana,” which is also infinite, which refers to “vinnana dhatu.” Of course, at the death of the physical body of that Arahant, a new existence is not grasped, and that is the “loka nirodha” or the “end of suffering.”
- In other words, the “loka” with all types of stuff made of the four primary elements cease to exist for that person (Arahant.)
4. This is a complex issue, but also a critical issue, at least for those at or above the Sotapanna stage.
P.S. Yes. The formatting has issues. But I can fix those, and I have fixed them in your comment. Don’t worry about it in the future.
3 users thanked author for this post.
Above my last comment, Alfalco asked two questions.
1. “Just one further question – where on this earth/realm does the mental body ‘reside’?”
- They are living right beside us. But we cannot see them.
- Their “bodies” have very little “matter,” less than even an atom in modern science. We cannot see an atom even with a standard microscope. That is how “subtle” or “fine” it is. That is why no one could see that woman’s gandhabba in the above video.
2. “Also, why is the ‘gandhabba’ concept not more of a major factor in Theravada school despite the fact that there’s scriptural support for it. It seems to be incredibly important to understanding rebirth and the workings of samsara.”
- Theravada school has also gradually become “ritualistic” (like Mahyana/Tibetan schools) in the sense that logic or reasoning is no longer taken into account these days.
- If someone logically considers the rebirth accounts and the fact that it is very difficult to get a human life, those two cannot be explained without the concept of gandhabba, i.e., a human can exist without a physical body. In ALL rebirth accounts, there is a gap of a few years between two consecutive births as a human.
- Those two births have the same gandhabba, i.e., it is the same human that is reborn with a different body only after a few years. That is why another birth with a physical human body is possible within a few years.
3. Anyone who does not believe in the concept of gandhabba: Please explain how two “human births” are possible within only a few years without the concept of gandhabba.
- The rarity of human birth is fully explained with many Tipitaka references in “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm.”
- We also know that many babies die within a month or even a few days. Does that mean his/her “human existence” ended only after such a short time? There are so many contradictions!
4 users thanked author for this post.
It is critically important to understand the concept of the “mental body” (gandhabba) before being able to answer many questions about human life.
- I know that it is an alien concept, especially in Western societies. However, evidence is emerging that it is real. The most relevant confirmations come from the accounts of patients whose “mental body” comes out of the physical body and they could see while being outside the physical body.
The following video is on one of such accounts by a physician:
Notes:
- In most such cases, the patient recovers brain function after a while, and that would be the end of the story. However, the patient’s gandhabba came out of her body in the above case.
- The woman’s gandhabba may have come out of the paralyzed body at some point. It was in the room when Dr. Greyson came and followed him to the other room where her friend was. The gandhabba was watching and listening to the conversation between her friend and Dr. Greyson.
- Once medical treatment restored her brain function, she could recall the conversation and tell Dr. Greyson about it in great detail. She not only heard but also saw the full details. That is why she noticed the stain on Dr. Greyson’s tie!
- So, she was able to see with her gandhabba body. Can there be any doubts about that?
- The gandhabba coming out of the physical body is not a common occurrence. However, he mentioned (maybe in another video) that about 10% of all people have experienced such an OBE. It is more common when patients undergo heart operations because the hadaya vatthu in the mental body overlaps the heart in the physical body.
The above is extracted from the post “Distorted Saññā Arises in Every Adult but Not in a Newborn.”
3 users thanked author for this post.
Thank you, Gad!
1 user thanked author for this post.
I presume that you have not read that many posts on this website. Your above answer clarified that for me.
1. It is not a sudden increase in humans but an increase in humans with physical bodies. That population has increased mainly because the conditions to support a large human population (with physical bodies) have improved over the past few hundred years.
- A large pool of humans is in the gandhabba state (i.e., just with the “mental body”); they are waiting to be born. That is the actual population of humans, which is probably in the hundreds of billions. Only 7 billion have been born with physical bodies at the present.
- That gandhabba population also keeps changing because of transitions among various realms.
2. When a Deva or Brahma dies and becomes a human existence, they aren’t reborn with a human body right away at that moment.
- For example, when a Deva dies and is born a human, only the mental body (gandhabba kaya) appears on Earth. That gandhabba may have to wait several years before being pulled into a “matching womb” and subsequently born with a physical body.
- As the economic conditions of the countries in the world improve, the human population increases.
3. In the example of #2, that human who was born with a “mental body” possibly has a lifetime of many thousands of years. During that time, he/she can be reborn with a human body numerous times. That is why there are so many rebirth accounts from all over the world. Some children can recall their last life born with a physical human body.
- Are you familiar with such rebirth accounts?
4. I want to see how much you know about the above before going into more detail. This is a complex subject that requires some background in Buddha Dhamma. For example, were you aware of the “gandhabba (mental body)”?
- Let me know your thoughts/questions on the above. We can proceed from there.
3 users thanked author for this post.
Are you aware that animals, Devas, Brahmas, etc. (a living being from any of the other ealms), can be reborn as humans?
Hi,
The answers to your questions are in the post “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm.”
- Please don’t hesitate to ask questions if something is unclear.
1. The following posts were written several years ago about the ideas of a Creator:
“What Does Buddha Dhamma Say about Creator, Satan, Angels, and Demons?“
“The Language of God” by Francis Collins“
2. Regarding Yash’s question: “There is one more problem.When a wise person questions the existence of God, they ask this famous question “Who created you then?”
- Each person (living being) creates one’s future lives by acting with avijja. That is the Paticca Sasumuppada process. There was no beginning to the rebirth process. “Origin of Life – There is No Traceable Origin.”
- That was the first post in the section “Origin of Life.” I have discussed many issues in detail there. It will take a while to go through!
Conclusion: “Origin of Life – One Creates One’s Own Future Lives“
1 user thanked author for this post.
I forgot to add the following in my earlier comment:
Hinduism (at least the early versions) originated with anariya yogis. They cultivated not only jhana but also abhinna powers (just like Devadatta, Alara Kalama, and Uddaka Ramaputta) in the days of the Buddha.
- Some of them visited those Brahma realms. So, it is quite likely that such yogis even had conversations with Maha Brahma and were convinced that Maha Brahma was the Creator of that Brahma realm. As described in the post ” “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa,” Maha Brahma believed that he and his fellow Brahmas would not die, i.e., they have attained “permanent life.”
- That was one reason the Buddha went to see Maha Brahma, as described in the “Brahmanimantanika Sutta (MN 49).” A brief description is at #4 in the above post. A longer description at #12 of “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means.”
2 users thanked author for this post.
Yes. Both Hinduism and Christianity are based on a Creator. But their descriptions are not related.
2 users thanked author for this post.
Maybe they do. As far as I know, this is the only recorded account in the Tipitaka.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Maha Brahma realm lies below the Abhassara realm and was destroyed in the last “loka vinasaya” described in the Agganna Sutta. See “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
- Maha Brahma (also called Baka Brahma) was the first to be born in that empty realm (coming down to that realm from the Abhassara realm) once the “reconstruction” started.
- He was there alone for a while and thought, “I was this realm’s Creator.” Then, he wished to have more “companions.” When others started coming down, he thought, “Oh, now I have created others too.”
- The Buddha visited that realm at least twice to try to dispel some of his misconceptions; see “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
No worries. It is good to have an inquisitive/curious mind. However, we need to be careful not to tackle more than we can handle. Some issues take a lot of effort only to gain a little knowledge.
1 user thanked author for this post.
I have revised #16 and #15 to make it more clear.
- I have revised other parts of the post to refer to recent posts on “distorted saññā“ as well.
- “Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
