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Hello venerable sir @Lal. This is bugging me since I read your answers about distorted sanna and about what happens after arahant’s mind get separated from 31 realms of existence. You said even jhanas/samapattis are not there after parinibbana (off course I never believed that they will still be there). So my question is that, is it the case that these jhanas/samapattis are not there after arahant gets separated from 31 realms, simply because they are not required/necessary anymore? I have heard that, even citta ends at parinibbana. Even there also is it the case that, citta is not required anymore and that’s why it ends? (by ‘not required’ I mean = just as sensual pleasures are dropped by anagami for example)
My understanding is that, (I am talking only in case of ariya beings) these sensual pleasures, jhanas/samapattis are there for either the proper survival or there is nothing better to replace (independecy about them is yet to be attained) and also these things are naturally present for ariyas. Like sensual pleasures are generally present naturally (accessible I mean) for sotapanna (they are no more required like before in case of sakadagami) and jhanas/samapattis are naturally present for anagami (I believe their mind is so pure that it is constantly in those jhanas/samapattis) (but they are no more required in case of arahant). Here, by ‘no more required’ I mean = there is no dependency/binding towards them. Basically I am asking is that, is the reason for jhanas/samapattis not being there after separation from 31 realms of existence is just that, they are not required anymore? (because buddha’s dhamma is middle way generally speaking and it asks to avoid extremes, so if this is true then whatever happens as one progresses towards parinibbana, happens gradually and it is not forced, rather dropped because of independency/freedom gained progressively by destroying samyojanas, this is my belief on which I am basing my question). Please answer this sir, I wish to hear to what you say. Or atleast point me to any post/s which can explain these things either explicitly or implicitly.
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Let me answer your specific questions by quoting them.
1. “So my question is that, is it the case that these jhanas/samapattis are not there after arahant gets separated from 31 realms, simply because they are not required/necessary anymore?”
- The point is that jhanas are associated with (or related to) the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms. In the same way, samapattis are related to the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms. For example, those humans who cultivate jhanas in born in one of the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms, and those who cultivate samapattis will be reborn in one of the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms.
- Therefore, those 20 realms are part of the world. The 31 realms in the world include 11 other realms in kama loka (with the 4 apayas, human realm, and 6 Deva realms).
- When one attains Arahanthood, one will be released from rebirths in all 31 realms. When the Arahant dies, they will not be reborn in any realm; it is the end of the cycle of rebirths and the end of even a trace of suffering.
- Furthermore, while it is good to cultivate jhanas or samapattis, they are not necessary to attain any magga phala, including Arahanthood. See my comment on February 25, 2026 at 5:56 am in “Vipassanā Methods.”
2. “Basically I am asking is that, is the reason for jhanas/samapattis not being there after separation from 31 realms of existence is just that, they are not required anymore? “
- Yes. See the last bullet point above.
- Many have attained even Arahanthood without attaining jhana. The majority of Arahants belong to that category of paññāvimutti Arahants; see “Pannāvimutti – Arahanthood without Jhāna.”
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Thank you so much for the response venerable sir @Lal. Off course I don’t believe jhanas/samapattis are necessary for attainment of magga-phala. I understand that part, I read that more than once here. I got my answers. Btw I also read all the posts marked in your response. Thank you!
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