Paṭha­ma­sañce­tani­ka Sutta (AN 10.217)

The following comment is from y not

When I tried to add a link to his comment, the whole comment disappeared. But luckily I kept a copy of his comment. Thanks, y not!

Cubibobi,

Go to the discussion:
“AN 10.219 Karayakayasutta (The Body born of Deeds)“. The subject matter of the two suttas (and of the one i between) is the same.

Metta

This is related to the following verse in the Mahā­sati­paṭṭhā­na Sutta (DN 22):
“..Sabba­kā­ya paṭi­saṃ­vedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabba­kā­ya paṭi­saṃ­vedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati,..”

Compare that with the word appaṭisaṃveditvā in the verse from Johnny’s first post.
– appaṭisaṃveditvā means “not paṭi­saṃ­vedī” or the concept of how “san” arises not grasped. In other words, Tilakkhana not grasped.

Sabba ­kā­ya in the above verse means ajjhatta kāya and bahiddha kāya .

The complete verse in the Mahā­sati­paṭṭhā­na Sutta is:

“eyyathāpi, bhikkhave, dakkho bhamakāro vā bhama­kāran­tevāsī vā dīghaṃ vā añchanto ‘dīghaṃ añchāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā añchanto ‘rassaṃ añchāmī’ti pajānāti; evameva kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti. ‘Sabba­kā­yapaṭi­saṃ­vedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabba­kā­yapaṭi­saṃ­vedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati.”

“Iti ajjhattaṃ vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati, bahiddhā vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati, ajjhat­ta­bahid­dhā vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati. Samuda­ya­dhammā­nu­passī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati, vaya­dham­mā­nu­passī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati, samuda­ya­va­ya­dham­mā­nu­passī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati. ‘Atthi kāyo’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭis­sati­mattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati. Evampi kho , bhikkhave, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati.”

It is good to carefully read the previous discussion that y not referred to.

I just wanted to provide the correct translation for the passage quoted by Johnny at the first post on his thread:
“Mendicants, I don’t say that intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated are eliminated without being experienced. And that may be in the present life, or in the next life, or in some subsequent period. And I don’t say that suffering is ended without experiencing intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated.”

The Pali verse is: “Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭi­saṃ­ve­ditvā byantībhāvaṃ vadāmi. Tañca kho diṭṭheva dhamme upapajje vā apare vā pariyāye. Na tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭi­saṃ­ve­ditvā duk­khas­san­takiri­yaṃ vadāmi.”

Per my explanation above and in the link provided above, the correct translation is:

“Bhikkhus, I don’t say that intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated would not bring their results if that person had not figured out why such deeds are immoral (that understanding would require comprehension of Tilakkhana). Those results may appear in the present life, in the next life, or in future life. And I don’t say that suffering will end if that person had not figured out why such deeds are immoral”

In other words, once one attains the Arahanthood ALL such kamma vipaka will end at the Parinibbana of that Arahant.
– Some of the vipaka (especially apayagami vipaka) start losing their ability to bring vipaka from the Sotapanna Anugami stage.

You are welcome, Lvalio!

I just did not have time to put that together earlier. But I understood a bit more clarification was needed.
– Anyway, don’t hesitate to ask questions. If I don’t know the answer, I will say so.