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Sir Lal: “There is also a sutta, which describes Ven. Moggalana took off to “look for the end of the world.” He got lost on the way, and the Buddha had to rescue him. I don’t remember the name of that sutta.”
He was trying to travel through an absorption into an arupa One of infinite space. These are the sources I found, sir. The first source comes from forum that I found. I don’t know if the translations are good.
- This story occurs in chapter 40 (kindred sayings about Ven. Moggallana) of the Salayatana-vagga, which is the fourth book of the Samyutta-nikaya (book of kindred sayings).
The relevant passage (section 5, entitled ‘Space’) can be summed up as follows:
(Then I thought, friends) : “They say, ‘The realm of infinite space, the realm of infinite space.’ Now, what is the realm of infinite space?’
Then, friends, this occurred to me: Herein a brother, passing utterly beyond the perception of objects, by the coming to an end of the perception of resistance, by not attending to the perception of diversity, with the idea of “infinite is space,” enters on and abides in the realm of infinite space. This is called “ the realm of infinite space.”
So I, friends, passing utterly beyond the perception of objects . . . entered on and abode in the realm of infinite space.
But when I had thus abode (and had emerged from trance), perception and work of mind, connected with the perception of objects, still continued.
Thereupon, friends, the Exalted One by magic power came to me and said: “Moggallana, Moggallana, be not remiss in the realm of infinite space, brahmin ! **Make steadfast the mind, make the mind one-pointed, compose the mind in the realm of infinite space.”
So after that, friends, passing utterly beyond objects . . . I entered on and abode in the realm of infinite space.
Now, friends, if any would rightly say: “Helped by the Master the disciple won great super-knowledge,” of me would he rightly say: “Helped by the Master did the disciple win great super-knowledge.”’
- The other source is from Sutta Central:A Question About the Dimension of Infinite Space
An excellent sermon that lasts only 5 min. Venerable Waharaka Thero spoke about how we are fooled by the impurity of the 32 parts of the body because of our twisted consciousness. I remember during the monastic ordination ceremony I was made to recite the 32 characteristics of the body. At first glance, it seemed a simple ritual but I now understand that it was a teaching.
It’s not surprising to find stories in the Suttas of people who became arahants before the end of their ordination.
Sir Lal: That happened at least once or twice during the time of the Buddha. I don’t remember the sutta.
It was arahant Ambapalika Thēri, sir. She was born spontaneously.Ambapāli (Ambapālikā)
I have an advice for you Yash don’t waste your time arguing with them. If you see that they don’t want to know anything else is better to stop the debate. Some may even threaten and insult you.
- The vast majority of them are narrow-minded people who categorically refuse anything contrary to their comfort zone. I clarified the vast majority because some are open-minded people who want to understand other points. The basis of these beliefs is unquestioned faith. In the Bible we often see Jesus saying “Do not be afraid, only believe” or “Go in peace, your faith has saved you”. “He who believes in me will have eternal life” He who does not believe will not be accepted into the kingdom of heaven. You already have a great insight into what type of person you are dealing with. Do you want to waste your time arguing with this type of person??
- In my case, it’s my merits. A monk told me it was my past pāramis who made it possible that despite being born in an environment where micchādiṭṭhi was predominant, I was able to learn the Dhamma and accept it. One of my greatest wishes is that the Dhamma spreads in Africa. The Dhamma would solve 99% of the problems of this continent. The problem is that micchādiṭṭhi is extremely strong there and it would take a lot of work. In the long term, I hope to work with the existing monastery there to better present the Dhamma and explain the key and important concepts of the Dhamma. It won’t be easy but there will be people open-minded enough to accept the Dhamma. (It was a little digression to say that we can hope that others understand the Dhamma like us but it can take time. In my case I would like Africans to understand the Buddha Dhamma.) It was books and painful experiences that brought me to the Dhamma (In this life anyway). I am not even a sotāpanna, even today. I am just developing the pāramis for the attainment of magga phala. Others will have different elements that will cause them to question these beliefs.
- Of course, some need a little more guidance to learn. If you think the person is open, go for it, otherwise it’s doomed. Soon I will write on the forum a teaching of the comments which describes 4 types of people found in the world. This comment helped me understand that everyone is different when coming into contact with the Dhamma.
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Reading the Brahmanimantanika Sutta (MN 49) we see Mara saying that those who do not have faith in Maha Brahma will end up in the lower worlds. This is exactly what monotheistic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) say. Except that for them, it is an eternal hell. This is the basis of these beliefs “faith in a creative and eternal God”. Unfortunately, it is a well-established micchādiṭṭhi and it is very hard to get out of it. This is why these religions are the most widespread in the world.
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By reading the first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1), we can see the consistency of the Aganna Sutta.
- As Lord Buddha said Maha Brahma had a thought that aligns with the events to come. The false view of Maha Brahma is the origin of monotheistic beliefs. This is also the same thing that some yogis feel in their samadhis. With Sila and Samadhi, our thoughts align with future events. What is dangerous is that it maintains the perception of atta (control) and nicca (the ability to keep things to our liking. This only happens among anariyas. In the suttas ariyas with abhinna powers had these abilities. However, they had an understanding of tilakkhana.
- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
The Aganna Sutta says that Maha Brahma was the only being below Abhassara Loka. Genesis 1 says God was the only being in the beginning!!
My comment: Well… its not “She” but its “He” (anyways its not relevant). Sorry friend I was talking about the channel.
Sammasambodhi Gami(friend Saketa): My point of this post is: Come out of your room, leave your laptop screen, and be among the Bhikkhus/Bhikkhunis, Anagariks/Anagarikas, Upasaks/Upasikas… join the company of Noble friends… be in the presence of the Maha Sangha… experience the environment of the Buddhist Monastery… live your life around those people who have dedicated their entire lives for Nibbana.
My friend, you said the right thing. I have experienced rare moments of tranquility and happiness with the Sangha. Even though these moments were brief, they far outweigh any pleasure I have received from worldly people. I believe that we can even get closer to the Niramisa Sukkha. Of course, the happiness of being an ariya surpasses any experience. I am convinced that the merit of this experience brought me to this site, which led me to the correct interpretations. A few days after this experience, I came across Puredhamma in 2022. However, I can’t imagine what the experience would be like with Bhikkhus and Bhikkunis who respect the Vinaya and follow the correct interpretations of the suttas! The incredible merit that will be developed by a person who gives them alms, the four necessities, and listens to their sermons is unparalleled. I wish everyone on this site had the chance to serve the Sangha in person.The Sangha is the supreme and perfect field of merit.
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These are not my words sir, these are the words of the Drarisworld site. I just came across these comments while looking for a reference.
- However, I agree that there could be some misinterpretations by putting them in English.
- If you have time you can analyze the Sinhala and pali versions of this jataka. Pali version :Pānīyajātaka Sinhala version:පානීය ජාතකය
Sir Lal:Are you saying that magga phala can be attained without comprehending the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana but just by listening to a Jataka story?
Of course not, sir. However, these stories could motivate one to practice Dhamma and develop paramis.
Derived interpretations of the terms Lōbha Dvēśa Mōha
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Sammasambodhi Gami (friend Saketa) had already shared this channel. She has many recorded and translated speeches of Venerable Waharaka Thero.
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