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By Deformed Sānna, I mean that Anariya yogis are not able to detach themselves from the pleasant feeling of jhanas. They think they are capable of maintaining it to their liking and that it is worth pursuing (nicca). Arahant Maha Kaccana explained that Lord Buddha overcame this misperception and saw the Annica nature of jhanas.
Sir Lal, I have often heard the term asaṅkhyeyya more than Maha Kappa. When it is said that the bodhisatta developed the 10 paramis for four asaṅkheyya and 100,000 kappa. So that means for 4 immeasurable durations of time and 100,000 kappa?
Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
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You can give more explanations my friend, I may be missing an important point and my explanation may be very incorrect without me knowing it. Otherwise, yes, as you said the ultimate goal is Nibbāna regardless of the points of view, it is important to get rid of the three poisons which are Moha, Lobha, and Dosa. No matter our level of understanding our efforts towards Nibbāna are not in vain. I remember you saying you wanted to become a Lord Buddha. May your noble wish come true as quickly as possible, my friend🙏🏿.
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DAHARA SUTTA: DISCOURSE ON THE YOUNG
“These four, Great King, should not be looked down upon for being young, should not be belittled for being young.”
“What four?”
“A noble warrior, Great King, should not be looked down upon for being young, should not be belittled for being young.”
“A snake, Great King, should not be looked down upon for being young, should not be belittled for being young.”
“A fire, Great King, should not be looked down upon for being young, should not be belittled for being young.”
“A monk, Great King, should not be looked down upon for being young, should not be belittled for being young.”
Let us not forget that Venerable Maha Mogallana became an arahant in one week and Venerable Sariputta took two weeks.
- However, Venerable Sariputta is the first in wisdom among all the disciples of Lord Gautama. Can we say that Venerable Maha Mogallana has higher spiritual faculties than Venerable Sariputta?? Arahant Santati was sad after the death of his dancer, and was returning from war when he saw Lord Buddha, and a few moments later he realized Nibbāna by listening to a simple verse. Can we say that his spiritual faculties were higher than Venerable Sariputta and Venerable Maha Mogallana?? I believe it is more prudent to stick to Venerable Revatta’s explanation about the 4 types of people rather than speaking in terms of faculties (indriya). I don’t think someone who has a high level of Panna, sati, and samadhi would indulge in alcohol and sensual pleasures easily. Not that your description is completely wrong, friend Sammasambodhi, but that of Venerable Revatta is better suited.
- Venerable Maha Mogallana is the highest in terms of Samadhi among these three arahants. His faculty of Samadhi was superior. He became an arahant by developing all the jhanas. Venerable Sariputta became an arahant by listening to a discourse. His wisdom surpassed all others after Lord Buddha. The layman Arahant Santati became an arahant by listening to a discourse and he developed all the abhinnas. In terms of Silā, they are all equal and an arahant will never break any of the precepts. However, before they reached magga phala they had different degrees. Minister Santati was returning from a war. He probably killed and then indulged in alcohol. He did not have high faculties. Sariputta and Maha Mogallana before meeting Lord Buddha were yogis who had renounced their wealth for the search for Nibbāna. It is safe to say that they did not have the same faculties at all, yet they are the first type of people. Santati had a very low sila compared to Maha Mogallana and Sariputta.
- What is certain is that all three of these arahants are of the first type of person. Venerable Maha Mogallana and Sariputta became sotāpanna by listening to a verse and the layman Santati became arahant with all the abhinnas by listening to a few lines of Lord Buddha. Each of us has different levels of faculties but the 1st and 2nd types of people appear only when a Lord Buddha is in the world, according to the commentaries. Today we are either in the 3 or 4 types with different levels of Silā, Samadhi, and Pānna. This is why it is a little incorrect to speak in terms of faculties.
“Thank you, my friend Sammasambodhi. I forgot to mention that the ascetic Sumedha could have become an arahant during the time of Lord Dipankara. However, he chose to give up this opportunity to become Lord Buddha Gautama.
- We both agree that one must start somewhere to become a Lord Buddha, a disciple, or a Paccekabuddha. To become one of these, an individual must have been a padaparama person in the sasanas of the past. King Ajatasattu and Devadatta are examples of individuals who understood the Dhamma very well. Lord Gautama said that if Ajatasattu had not committed anantariya karma, he would have become a Sotāpanna. However, he will become a Paccekabuddha after his sentence in the Nirayas. Devadatta will also become a Paccekabuddha. The layman Arahant Santati understood the Dhamma during the time of Lord Buddha Vipassi, which was 91 Maha kappas ago. Santati, who was a messenger of Lord Vipassi, explained the Dhamma to others. It took him 91 eons to achieve Nibbāna. As a padaparama, he developed all the faculties necessary to become a type 1 person (Ugghatitannu). He is one of the rare lay arahants and he understood the Dhamma in just a few verses.”
- The point is that we all have to start somewhere, in this infinite Samsara. Before our bodhisatta received his first confirmation there was no guarantee that he would become a Lord Buddha. Don’t forget, many make this wish but few succeed. Those who give up become arahants very quickly with great teaching abilities. It is safe to say that he was a Padaparama person. He met 24 Lord Buddhas and countless numbers before his journey. Those of the first and second types were padaparama.
- This also makes sense when reading the story of Jotipāla. Jotipāla was our bodhisatta during the time of Lord Buddha Kassapa. He became a monk under the dispensations but did not attain any fruit of Magga phala. He didn’t even know he was a bodhisatta until Lord Kassapa said so. He was a padaparama person who accumulated the 10 paramis to become a Lord Buddha. Some are bodhisattas and don’t even know it. They make trial and error. He even insulted Lord Kassapa. A bodhisatta is not that perfect either. He is still a Puthujuna subject to the apayas. We see many jatakas where he was an animal. Of course, it doesn’t fall as much as a regular puthujunas.
Thank you, Sir Lal🙏🏿. Thank you, Dosakkhayo! It’s common to feel the need to share our knowledge of Dhamma with others, but it’s important to consider the situation.
- If those around us hold strong beliefs that conflict with our own, it may be best to avoid discussing these topics with them. This is especially true since most people are not one of the four types of learners and may not be receptive to our ideas.
- When we say that something may do more harm than good, we mean that it could turn someone away from Dhamma and even cause them to discourage others from learning about it. This would lead to negative consequences in the future, as exemplified by the story of Dusi Mara, a past life of Venerable Maha Mogallana, who suffered in Niraya for disturbing the sangha. The story of Cunda the Pig Butcher also illustrates this point – Lord Gautama did not teach Dhamma to him, as he would have likely resisted and insulted Lord Buddha, which would have been worse.
It’s important to understand that insulting an ariya can lead to serious kammic consequences.
Thank you very much for the explanation, sir Lal. Certain states of mind seem to persist over time, right? This is why puthujunas identify with the mind. There is a man who drove 11 hours from Georgia to Chicago in Illinois to kill his ex-wife. It happened 2 years ago. During these 11 hours, he identified himself as an angry husband who must defend his honor. His mind was so much under the influence of Dosa(anger) that he even committed suicide after the act. If he had been more attentive during those 11 hours, he could have turned around.
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ASSUTAVA SUTTA: DISCOURSE ON THE UNINSTRUCTED
“It would be better, monks, for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to take this body, made of the four great elements, as the self rather than the mind. What is the reason for this? Because, this body made of the four great elements, is seen standing for one year, two years, three years, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But that what is called mind, intellect, or consciousness, arises as one thing and ceases as another by day and by night. Just as a monkey roaming through the forest and mountainside, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs still another branch. In the same way, monks, that what is called mind, intellect, or consciousness, arises as one thing and ceases as another by day and by night.”
What did Lord Buddha mean by saying this? I admit I didn’t completely understand this sutta.
In this speech, Venerable Waharaka Thero also mentioned the dangers of Jhanas if one is inexperienced.
- One can achieve jhanas by using the 4 elements as objects of meditation. The fire element (Tejo) can be dangerous and you could end up self-immolated if you don’t control it. Some arahants used Tejo Kasina to enter parinibbãna. They rose into the air and were instantly consumed by fire. Venerable Arahant Ananda and Lay Arahant Santati are examples. Others have difficulty coming out of jhanas and no longer feel their body. He had told the story of a novice who could not feel his legs even long after coming out of Jhana. Anariya yogis had developed Sassatta Dithi (belief in eternity) because of their distorted sanna about jhanas. If one developed jhanas with pathavi kasina (earth) he thought that the soul is hard like rock. If one developed apo (water) he thought that the soul is like a vast expanse of water. Those of fire (tejo) thought that the soul is like a flame. Those of air (vayo) thought that the soul extended.
- In my conclusion, it would be wise to have a bhikkhu or lay meditation master who is well versed in the suttas and has the correct teachings, before engaging in intensive jhana practice. This applies if one is not yet sotāpanna or if one is not someone of a calm and fearless temperament. A sotāpanna can never fall into false views like these anariyas yogis. On the other hand, he could perhaps put himself in danger and become afraid in the jhanas, depending on his gati (character). Someone with a calm and fearless temperament is very unlikely to put themselves in situations where they lose control of the jhanas. However, he could fall into false views of the self (sakkaya ditthi) if he is not sotāpanna of course. This is why anariyas yogis of calm temperament like Alara Kalama and Udakka Ramputta mastered all the jhanas but were under the influence of Sakkaya ditthi. Just like sotāpannas like Venerable Ananda probably had to master the jhanas without losing control. Lord Buddha even helped Arahant Maha Mogallana when he was sotāpanna not to get lost in the immensity of infinite space. It could have put his life in danger. Of course, these situations apply to anyone who wishes to embark on the path of jhanas to attain Nibbāna.
