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So the distinction between pancakkhnadha and pancupadanakkhandha is separate from the distinction between bahidda and ajjhatta. Thank you for clearly explaining what I was confused about.
Then, does pancakkhandha refer to bahidda rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana, and pancupadanakkhandha refer to ajjhatta rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana?
Is kayagata sati the same as satipatthana?
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Na kho, upāli, bhikkhunī saṅghaṁ bhindati, api ca bhedāya parakkamati, na sikkhamānā saṅghaṁ bhindati …pe… na sāmaṇero saṅghaṁ bhindati, na sāmaṇerī saṅghaṁ bhindati, na upāsako saṅghaṁ bhindati, na upāsikā saṅghaṁ bhindati, api ca bhedāya parakkamati.
bhikkhunī, sikkhamānā, sāmaṇero, sāmaṇerī, upāsako, and upāsikā can not make a sangha bheda kamma.
Only bhikkhu can make a sangha bheda kamma.
In summary, a sotapanna has removed sakkaya ditthi and the ten types of micca ditthi. This also entails the removal of vibhava tanha. Additionally, a sotapanna does not have bhava ditthi. Thank you. This has been very helpful for me.
“I don’t think there is such a term in the Tipitaka.”
- Bhava ditthi Tattha katamā bhavadiṭṭhi? “Bhavissati attā ca loko cā”ti—yā evarūpā diṭṭhi diṭṭhigataṁ …pe… vipariyāsaggāho—ayaṁ vuccati “bhavadiṭṭhi”.
- But I don’t know what ‘Bhavissati attā ca loko cā‘ means. Would you let me know what it means?
“Why do you think the removal of uccheda ditthi leads to the removal of bhava tanha?”
- I don’t think the removal of uccheda ditthi leads to the removal of bhava tanha.
- What I wanted to ask is, if one becomes a Sotapanna by eliminating all ditthi (wrong views), why does bhava ditthi still remain?
- If a Sotapanna stage is not achieved through the elimination of all ditthi, then the issue of bhava ditthi remaining is resolved.
“Uccheda ditthi means not believing in the rebirth process. Would not one with uccheda ditthi have kama raga (and thus bhava tanha)?”
- I think that bhava tanha refers to rupa raga and arupa raga because in the Vibhanga it says, ‘Rūpadhātuarūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “bhavataṇhā”’. Therefore, when there is kama tanha, there is no bhava tanha.
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Tattha katamā tisso taṇhā? Kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, vibhavataṇhā.
- Bhavadiṭṭhisahagato rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “bhavataṇhā”.
- Ucchedadiṭṭhisahagato rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “vibhavataṇhā”. Avasesā taṇhā kāmataṇhā.
- Kāmadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “kāmataṇhā”.
- Rūpadhātuarūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “bhavataṇhā”.
- Ucchedadiṭṭhisahagato rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “vibhavataṇhā”. Imā tisso taṇhā.
Tattha katamā aparāpi tisso taṇhā? Kāmataṇhā, rūpataṇhā, arūpataṇhā.
- Kāmadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “kāmataṇhā”.
- Rūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “rūpataṇhā”.
- Arūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “arūpataṇhā”. Imā tisso taṇhā.
Tattha katamā aparāpi tisso taṇhā? Rūpataṇhā, arūpataṇhā, nirodhataṇhā.
- Rūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “rūpataṇhā”.
- Arūpadhātupaṭisaṁyutto rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “arūpataṇhā”.
- Ucchedadiṭṭhisahagato rāgo sārāgo cittassa sārāgo—ayaṁ vuccati “nirodhataṇhā”. Imā tisso taṇhā.
Based on this information, we can understand the following:
bhavataṇhā
- Related to bhavadiṭṭhi.
- Concerned with being reborn in the rupa or arupa dhatu.
- Similar to the combination of rūpataṇhā and arūpataṇhā.
vibhavataṇhā
- Related to ucchedadiṭṭhi.
- Similar to nirodhataṇhā.
If a Sotāpanna eliminates ucchedadiṭṭhi, and thus vibhavataṇhā is removed at the Sotāpanna stage, why isn’t bhavataṇhā eliminated as well? Isn’t a Sotāpanna attained by eliminating all diṭṭhis? What is bhavadiṭṭhi? Is it unrelated to sakkaya ditthi? Also, if there are any important points that can be found in this Vibhanga material, I would appreciate it if you could share them. Thank you.
Interpretation is not a simple process. Think about it like this: You put John and Smith in the same room for ten minutes and wait. Then, outside the room, you give them paper and a pen and ask them to describe the room. Even if neither John nor Smith lies at all, there won’t be identical sentences written on the two papers. This is because people read different things from same thing. There can be infinite interpretations of a given text. (Of course, there are valid, sound, and coherent interpretations, as well as those that are not.) It is impossible to write a text in a way that prevents infinite possibilities of interpretation.
If something like abhisankhara or kamma vinnana had been written as it was, the distortion of the Dhamma occurring in the absence of the Ariya would have progressed in a different, unknown manner.
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The rebirth process can be seen as a process of repeatedly moving between good and bad realms.
- What we can learn from this is that where one is born (jati) depends on the level and nature of the contamination of the mind (bhava).
I have further expanded on this through distorted sañña.
- Saṃsāra can also be described as the cycle of kamma viññāṇa and the corresponding vipāka viññāṇa.
- For such vipāka viññāṇa to be experienced, there must be a corresponding kāya.
- What I learned from studying distorted sañña is that the distortion corresponding to kamma viññāṇa is imprinted on the kāya as vipāka.
What can be understood from kamma and vipāka is the clear distinction between what is given and what I can change.
- Distorted sañña can also be viewed in the same way as dealing with vipāka.
- It is about distinguishing between what is given (distorted sañña) and what can be changed by oneself (defiled sañña).
Recently, I have contemplated this concept a lot and have been able to reflect beneficially on kāma rāga.
I express my deep gratitude to Ven. Lal, who made this possible.
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Thank you for your kind words. However, I have limited knowledge about Abhidhamma and find it difficult to assist. I’m not being modest; I genuinely don’t know much about Abhidhamma. Once I have learned more and gained a deeper understanding, I will consider participating. Thank you.
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Yes. That is what I want to say.
I recently read the updated post Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala, and all my remaining questions about Sotapanna have been resolved. Thank you!
It’s flattering for me. I try to stay curious and keep learning. I still have a lot to learn, though. Especially with regard to Abhidhamma, I know next to nothing. Thank you for the encouragement.
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