[Yeos]

Hello,

Asuras / beings from the “hell” realm can irrupt in our world by chance, because they want or because they are invoked ? Did the Buddha ever say something about black magick adepts ?

Thanks

[Christian]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html

[upekkha100]

Hi Yeos.

If I remember correctly, Lal had said there are two types of asuras. Those from the apayas and those from the deva loka.

In my opinion and according to my understanding, it is not any being from the lower realms/apayas. They have no power, they are helpless. They stay in their realm(especially niraya brings). So I do not believe there is any need to fear them, if anything, feel bad for the suffering they are going through right now. Rather, I think it is beings from the higher realms-deva loka, that have to do with that kind of magic. The beings people mistakenly think of as demons/devil in my opinion are devas. Devas have some inherent capabilities that humans are not equiped with because our human body kind of disables these abilities that our mental body(the gandabba) also inherently has.

Devas/Mara can possess people and shape-shift into different characters. From some suttas, you can get an idea that sometimes they use some of their inherent abilities(possessing humans, shape-shifting, etc) for mischievous actions at times, it is some sort of fun/play for them it seems, but of course they are earning bad kamma for these actions, one Dhammapada verse(I forget which one) even mentioned a bhikkhu who suffered a certain kamma vipaka in the current life for doing such pranks via his deva abilities in past life to two other Bhikkus.

I think there are some humans who might be aware of such devas, the devas interacted with them by making their presence known. These humans probably get enamored/impressed by the devas’ abilities. They might even literally think the devas are God/Gods thus the incorrect translation of deva as “god”. And because these humans crave special talents/abilities/fame/power/status themselves, these humans intentionally actually want/desire to be possessed by the devas, and maybe they think that doing certain rituals will invite the deva to do just that. When really no ritual is needed, because Mara has possessed many people according to the suttas, and these people didn’t do any rituals. It is possible the ritual can merely be their way of getting the attention of devas, and then inviting the devas to possess them. And it is also possible Mara/devas make promises of giving special abilities/status to these humans, but they make the humans do certain activities first-to me this sounds like a prank the devas are playing on humans. At least this is what I think, and is the conclusion I have come to when combining the various information from suttas/Buddhism and watching various youtube videos regarding “other” beings.

A few more points that some may find interesting:
-The word “genius” is supposedly related to “genie.” Genie might be related to the arabic word jinn. The word jinn in arabic also denotes these invisible beings who can possess/shape-shift. Genies grants wishes. Devas can give the impression of granting wishes.
-Mara is king of the sensual realm, a mortal deva himself, and most likely has matchless beauty and certain abilities due to his past good kamma. The devil in Christianity is Lucifer, he also supposedly has exceeding beauty and power, then became a fallen angel. Loki in Norse Mythology is the trickster god.
-The word “spirits” refers to many kinds of alcoholic drinks. Alcohol is most likely to turn off one’s Samma Sati, and when sati is off or low, people are more likely to engage in immorality, and also possibly more vulnerable to getting possessed by beings/”spirits”. Thus even more reason why Samma Sati is so important.

If you’re interested, the following videos might give you more of an idea. Especially if you watch them with the information from Buddhism in mind, things might make sense. Of course take everything with a grain of salt as not all can be certain to be 100% true, but they still have something useful to learn from.

1) https://youtu.be/-fq75Ax_kL0
2) https://youtu.be/2JCrx3LP78I
-About how those who didn’t have any or much talent for music suddenly became talented overnight.
-the saying “music of the gods/music from the heavens” takes on a clear new meaning after watching these videos.

3) https://youtu.be/Ko7RBI71rQs
Question/answer about Mara and other devas with such abilities starts from 15:11 and ends at 36:50.

[Lal]

I highly recommend the sutta reference provided by Christian. There is much to learn from that sutta, and it is a good translation.

Regarding what upekkha said: “Lal had said there are two types of asuras”: There are two types of asuras:
– one is called vinipatha Asuras. They belong to the apayas or the four lowest realms.
– The other is Asura Devas. They are in a Deva realm.

Those normally cannot affect humans, but more powerful devas, such as the Mara Devaputta, can affect humans.

None of them can really affect those who have strong faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.

[sybe07]

The sutta’s do sometimes describe a Mara who possesses someone but in a more metaphorical sense, Mara’s influence on us can be seen in our own attachment. Mara influence on us is by way of our own avijja, tanha, anusaya, samyojana, asava, upadana, all those causes and conditions that fetter.

Also the celestial bond is still a bond. Anywhere there arises this binding effect, there is, in a metaphorical sense, a possession by Mara, a binding by Mara. In that sense only Buddha’s and arahants, who have crosses any realm of existence (mara’s domain) have really escaped Mara.

Siebe

[Yeos]

Hi all

@Christian : i’ll consult it still today no doubt.

@Upekkha : such a vast and varied info…will not miss the Youtube videos.

@Lal : faith AND insight or just faith ? Because i know alot of people that have faith in the Buddha but as for dhamma-insight ….i’ve my doubts…

@Siebe: yes that’s the “philosophical” perspective wich is equally valuable, indeed. Mara’s domain : the whole Cosmos?

thanks to all

[Author]

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