[Tobias G]

Some time ago I had a discussion with Lal regarding “doing moral abhisankhara via good deeds”.
In the post “What is Intention in Kamma?” it is said in #16:
The “intention” is one of the dasa akusala in the case of an akusala kamma. That intention arises BECAUSE OF one’s gathi with certain set of cetasika being dominant.”

Dasa akusala are involved in every akusala abhisankhara (or strong immoral kamma). Micca ditthi is one of the dasa akusala done with the mind. That means also kusala abhisankhara are done with the dasa akusala involved, at least until the Sotapanna stage (where micca ditthi is removed).

Any thought?

[Lal]

Tobias said: “Micca ditthi is one of the dasa akusala done with the mind. That means also kusala abhisankhara (this should be punna abhisankhara; see the comments on May 14, 2019 below) are done with the dasa akusala involved, at least until the Sotapanna stage (where micca ditthi is removed).”

This is a very good point, and I hope everyone pays attention to it.

This is why one cannot get to Nibbana via the mundane eightfold path. One’s micca ditthi NOT completely removed until one comprehends the REAL NATURE (yathabhuta nana), with Tilakkhana.

For example, one on the mundane path abstains from stealing, sexual misconduct, etc MAINLY because one is afraid of rebirth in lower realms. But if the temptation is high, one may go ahead and do it anyway.

However, one who has comprehended Tilakkhana has seen the UNFRUITFULESS sense pleasures. So, in addition to the “being afraid factor”, one also KNOWS that no matter how tempting, it is not WORTHWHILE.
– Of course, a Sotapanna has not fully grasped Tilakkhana, so he/she will absolutely not do only those anantariya kamma. Only an Arahant has the full yathabhuta nana, and thus will not do ANY akusala kamma.

This is discussed in detail in the fourth desana on Tilakkhana that was just published: “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“.

[Tobias G]

Hi Lal,
the “intention” in case of a kusala kamma also involves the dasa akusala (except for Ariyas). Although the goal of the sankhara is a kusala deed. Maybe you could mention this in the post.

Also could you explain this from the Abhidhamma angle in terms of cetasika/citta?
Thank you!

[Lal]

Hi Tobias,
There is not that much to be gained by doing an Abhidhamma analysis.
This is a matter of getting the basic idea. That will change one’s sanna about this world>.

Sanna is a universal cetasika and arises in each and every citta. So, once one gets the “yathabhuta nana” it will be embedded in one’s cittas forever.

As one’s understanding of Tilakkhana grows, one’s panna (wisdom) will grow and the asobhana cetasika lobha, dosa, moha will diminish. Samma Nana — that is attained upon the completion of the Noble Eightfold Path — is complete when panna is optimized (and at that time one is an Arahant and one had attained full release or Samma vimutti).

The fundamental idea is discussed in detail in the fourth desana on Tilakkhana that was just published: “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“. And that discussion will continue in the next and last desana in that series. That is what needs to be grasped. Of course, some may have already grasped it, and there are many ways to get there.

If there are more questions on this issue, it is better to discuss them at the forum on “Three Marks of Existence Discourses“. Complete removal of micca ditthi is attained upon full understanding of Tilakkhana.

[Tobias G]

With the rewritten post Kamma are Done with Sankhāra – Types of Sankhāra the start of this forum post in Feb 2018 was not correct: “…That means also kusala abhisankhara are done with the dasa akusala involved…”
It must be: “punna abhisankhara are done with the dasa akusala involved, except those where micca ditthi is removed”.

Deeds become kusala when micca ditthi is removed and tilakkhana are grasped at least to some extent, that is where a person switches from the mundane 8fold path to the noble 8fold path.
Any thoughts?

[Lal]

Thanks, Tobias.
Yes. What you say is correct.

I will make a correction to the old comment.

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