[Yash RS]

I have many questions.

Firstly regarding the world.

I have seen bhikkus say that it’s a mental world and out there are only the four great elements 

So the world that I experience is only mental? So where are my friends and family? In my own mind? Doesn’t it sound like Solipsism? Or like a Hallucination?

Aren’t the beings really out there?

I have great confusion regarding this. 

What it means that it’s a mental world? 

Then what’s the point of merits and compassion then? It also gives a sense of complete isolation and nothingness.

Then what about the Physical world and the laws of nature?

Have i misunderstood something?

 

[Lal]

Maybe you misunderstood what that bhikkhu was saying (or did he actually mean it)? The following is my understanding.

1. Yes. The world that I experience is mental and “real” for me. 

2. But my mental experience is based on sensory inputs coming from the external world, and that external world is also real.

3. However, another person may experience the same external world differently from me.

_______

I think the above points describe the fundamental basis.

• In other words, everyone experiences the same external world.
• However, the “mental experience” depends on the person. The simplest example is the following. Two people, A and B, look at person X (who is a friend of A and an enemy of B). A experiences joy upon seeing X, but anger arises in B upon seeing the same person X.

[Yash RS]

Thanks. I think I misunderstood it I will further clarify it in the meeting 

 

Another thing is that if our colour perception occurs due to our physical eyes and light then what do people with OBEs and NDEs see? Do they see the world in the same way as they did with the human body?

[Lal]

Yes. Our color perception is due to the physical properties of our eyes and the interaction with light.

• Humans and various animals “see” using different wavelength bands of light. Humans perceive colors within the “colored light wavelengths” (violet to red), which is why we see in vivid colors. Dogs don’t see with color; they see in black and white. Bats “see” using a very different technique.
• Gandhabbas (our mental bodies) see without using light when they come out of the physical body, as in OBE and NDE. Of course, they cannot use physical eyes. They don’t need light to see, and they can see better than we, because of that. A friend of mine can come out of the body and says she can see things much clearly while “out-of-the-body.” That “seeing” is, however, without color. The “color scheme” is associated with seeing through the physical eyes of humans. 

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Yash RS

[Christian]

“I have seen bhikkus say that it’s a mental world and out there are only the four great elements ” – Yes, but this is the wrong way to understand the world in the sense that people can say “world or the material world is just atoms”, so what? It doesn’t take away other things because they are results of that. People cope this way by giving up on things and misunderstanding the world’s nature. 

Don’t fall into trap, “this is like that, so the rest makes no sense or it’s irrelevant because of so and so”. Seeing things are they all need to be on all levels. 

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Yash RS

[Lal]

I was going to follow up with another comment yesterday, but I got tied up with an issue at home. 

1. What I described in my two comments above is the “mundane reality.” 

2. The Buddha discovered the “ultimate reality” (“paramatta dhamma“) about the world.

• Here, “paramatta” is “parama atta” or the “ultimate truth.” 
• The external world and the sentient beings in it are sustained by the “mental power” or the “kammic energy” of the sentient beings.
• Each sentient being generates “kammic energy” based on rāga, dosa, and moha. Part of that energy leads to new rebirths, and the rest of the collective kammic energies of all sentient beings contribute to sustaining the external world.
• All inert objects, as well as the physical and mental bodies of sentient beings, are made of suddhāṭṭhaka created by kammic energy. A suddhāṭṭhaka has eight components: the four great elements (pathavi, āpo, tejo, and vāyo) that arise due to avijjā and four more (vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, oja) due to taṇhā. The latter four are discussed in Abhidhamma but are only referred to as “upādāya rupa” in the suttās. As we have discussed, the Abhidhamma theory was not fully developed during the Buddha’s lifetime. This is a deeper aspect discussed in “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka.”

3. When a given sentient being figures out (fully understands) the teachings of the Buddha, the generation of “kammic energy” (based on rāga, dosa, and moha) stops. The disappearance of moha (or avijjā) leads to the loss of one’s cravings for worldly pleasures (rāga), and that also leads to the fading away of moha.

• One critical aspect of that is the following. The avijjā (or moha) is not to see the “full picture” of the endless rebirth process based solely on “mind power” or kammic energy.
•  Since the energy to sustain the whole process is created in the defiled mind (this is what “Manōpubbangamā dhammā..” means), whatever is created cannot be sustained forever. Each existence (whether in the human realm, in the animal realm, or a Brahma realm) has a finite duration, a limited lifetime. The problem is that most rebirths are in the suffering-filled lowest four realms. That is why the rebirth process leads to much more suffering in the long term.

4. Another aspect is as follows: We pointed out above that kammic energies are responsible for maintaining the external world and the sentient beings (all composed of suddhāṭṭhaka). That process leads to the generation of “distorted saññā” in the minds of all sentient beings, making them automatically attach to sensory inputs. 

• That is why the Buddha said that all sentient beings are deceived by this “distorted saññā” inherent in all sentient beings via Paṭicca Samuppāda. See “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
• P.S. In other words, fully understanding how “distorted saññā” arises helps eliminate avijjā and taṇhā. Thus, Nibbāna is reached via cultivating wisdom (paññā), i.e., fully understanding the above.

• This reply was modified 6 days ago by Lal.

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Waisaka, Yash RS

[Lal]

I have just posted “Loka – Each Person Perceives the “External World” Differently,” which explains the above in detail. 

• Feel free to ask questions.

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Waisaka, Yash RS

[Yash RS]

Is it correct to say that matter exists in the outside world and we use our minds to experience a mental version of it?

Like the table is really in the outside world  and not  because I can sense it through my senses?

If I eat a cake , is the cake really in the outside world composed of matter or its just a mental thing because I can see,smell,hear,taste,touch it? What if the senses are not present?

I want complete clarity on this topic 🙏🏻 

 

[Lal]

Yes. It is essential to have full clarity on these questions.

Question: Is it correct to say that matter exists in the outside world and we use our minds to experience a mental version of it? Like the table is really in the outside world  and not  because I can sense it through my senses?

• Yes. 100%

Question: If I eat a cake , is the cake really in the outside world composed of matter or its just a mental thing because I can see, smell, hear, taste, touch it?

• Yes. The cake is real, and your sensations (e.g., its taste) based on it are real.

Question: What if the senses are not present?

• If a given sense faculty is not working, you will not experience the sensation.
• For example, the blind cannot see, and the deaf cannot hear.

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Yash RS

[Yash RS]

Thanks.

So would it be wrong to say that everything is mental?

What exactly happens during seeing? Do we see what’s out there as the light reflects back from the object or its just completely a different fabrication? Since colour is not in the outside world, what do we really see?

[Lal]

Question: “So would it be wrong to say that everything is mental?”

• What I described in my earlier comment is correct. But that version does not explain how that world arises and is sustained. For example, modern science suggests that the universe originated from nothing with a “Big Bang,” and all those “things” and sentient beings evolved over billions of years. That is the “mundane theory” I described in the post.
• The Buddha taught that our world (with all sentient beings and all inert things (trees, mountains, stars, galaxies, etc) arises based on the mental power generated by sentient beings. That is the “ultimate theory (paramatta dhamma)” that I discussed.
• Please re-read the post and ask more questions as needed. It would be helpful for me to cite from the post and ask questions about any unclear points.

The above baseline must be understood before I can answer your other questions.

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Yash RS

[Yash RS]

I have read that sir please continue 🙏🏻

[Lal]

Reading is not the same as understanding.

• “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (SN 56.11)” was the first discourse delivered by the Buddha.
• The verse “..pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṁ udapādi, ñāṇaṁ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.” appears 12 times in the sutta. It means “such was the vision, knowledge, and wisdom, realization arose in me regarding the true/real nature of this world. This understanding was not known to the world before me.” That led him to attain Nibbana and separate from the world. Here, “āloko udapādī” means “separation from the world” upon reaching Buddhahood.  
• The Buddha also taught that it is dangerous to grasp his deep/profound teachings incorrectly. See “Alagaddūpama Sutta (MN 22).” Trying to grasp these teachings in the wrong way is dangerous, like trying to catch a snake by its tail; it will bite you, and it can be deadly! This is why I do not wish to answer questions from those who cannot understand what I stated in my previous comment. It will be a waste of time because we will be examining issues from two very different perspectives.
• This series of posts may not be suitable for everyone. If anyone becomes confused, please stop reading the posts in the new section: “Worldview of the Buddha.” I am saying this with compassion. I don’t want to see people getting hurt. Also, remember that the Buddha was discouraged upon attaining Buddhahood, because he thought it would not be easy to teach his newfound Dhamma to the world: “Brahmāyācana Sutta (SN 6.1).”
• My goal is not to increase the number of people who read this website. My goal is to teach those who can grasp these profound teachings without becoming stressed. The goal is to reduce suffering, not increase it!

 

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Yash RS

[Lal]

I will try to explain the difference between the “mundane theories” (of science, philosophy, and religions) and the “ultimate theory (paramatta dhamma)” of the Buddha about the world using another approach in the next post.

• In the meantime, it is essential to understand that most of the “feelings” of sukha/somanassa or dukkha/domanassa are due to saññā: Vedanā and saññā are closely related. Even though saññā is usually translated as “recognition/perception,” it includes emotions that come with that “recognition/perception.” See “Saññā – What It Really Means.”
• For example, the sweet taste of honey (and the feeling of joy associated with it) is a saññā. The attractiveness of a person or a thing and the pleasant smell of a rose are also the same. Only bodily feelings (e.g., an injury) are strictly vedanā. This is emphasized in Abhidhamma, but not in the suttas.
• We attach to most things with saññā!
• Also, feel free to ask questions about the current post, “Loka – Each Person Perceives the “External World” Differently,” What I am trying to explain is not necessarily hard. Still, it is probably something most people have not even thought about. 

[Author]

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