[taryal]

Let’s take an example of a guy who has a lustful gati. If he sees a woman, his mind can automatically build a liking towards (the sight of) her. This leads to him wanting more of her presence and ultimately a pressure builds up in his mind. The resulting discomfort can be regarded as “mental vexation”.

The vexed mind thinks, “It is ‘I’ who is pressured.” But we can question this propensity by asking, “Isn’t it wanting that caused the pressure? Furthermore, “can there be pressure (effect) when there is no wanting (cause)?”

Realizing that wanting automatically leads to pressure, the mind then thinks, “It is ‘I’ who created the wanting that leads to ‘me’ being pressured.” But we can question this propensity by asking, “Isn’t wanting caused due to liking? Furthermore, “can there be wanting (effect) when there is no liking (cause)?”

Realizing that liking automatically leads to wanting, the mind then thinks, “It is ‘I’ who created the liking that leads to ‘me’ wanting.” But we can question this propensity by asking, “Isn’t liking caused due to ignorance? Furthermore, “can there be liking (effect) when there is no ignorance (cause)?”

Thus, as long as ignorance is present in mind, (initial) liking happens automatically to certain inputs according to mind’s gati. In the above example, the boy’s mind automatically got attached to the sight of a female without any conscious effort. Not knowing that the initial attachment doesn’t need a doer, the mind can end up generating more thoughts to strengthen the attachment and thus generate more kamma.

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Yash RS

[cubibobi]

“Not knowing that the initial attachment doesn’t need a doer …”

The ignorance here is likely not about a “doer”, or whether a “doer” is or is not needed, but it is ignorance about anicca, dukkha, anatta.

In your example, looks like you were describing the following steps in paticca samuppada (in nidessa version):

samphassa paccayā samphassa-jā-vedanā
samphassa-jā-vedanā paccayā taṇhā
taṇhā paccayā upādāna

You may be interested in the following post:

Taṇhā Paccayā Upādāna – Critical Step in Paṭicca Samuppāda

Best,
Lang

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Yash RS

[taryal]

Yes Lang, I wanted to emphasize the fact that during this process, the ignorant mind thinks a “self” is experiencing the vexation when in reality, it is simply the effect of the causes (suitable gati, sensory input, etc.) coming together.

And thanks for suggesting the relevant post!

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Yash RS

[Lal]

Good discussion!

The root cause of all this is the following: All our attachments are due to a “perceived self,” and that sense of a “self,” “me,” or “mine” arises due to the (distorted) saññā of experiencing “a sense of joy” with certain sensory inputs (for a human it is things like the taste of honey, the smell of perfume, beauty of a woman or handsomeness of a man, etc; but that is not common to other living beings, for example animals. Thus, such “a sense of joy” is not real, but it is a bit hard to see how it arises.)!

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Yash RS, Amin

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