TrpleGemStudent wrote: “So my thinking is that this conventional reality = subjective while nibbana = objective reality.”
- That is correct. May be it is even better to state, “Conventional reality = subjective reality. Nibbana = objective reality.”
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1. Conventional reality is shared among those in the same realm, for example, for humans.
- Animals’ conventional reality is different from that of humans. Even among animals, there are many different ‘realities experienced.’ The same holds for other realms in the apayas.
- The above also holds for the six Deva realms.
- The reason is that numerous types of sanna are present in kama loka.
2. In Rupa Loka Brahma realms, various types of ‘kama sanna‘ are absent.
- In Arupa Loka Brahma realms, essentially one (distorted) sanna is present and thus a mind is ‘closer’ to Nibbana. However, that holds only until the end of their lifetimes. When they are reborn in the kama loka, they revert to being affected by many types of (distorted) sanna.
3. Permanent changes happen only with magga phala.
- Even with magga phala, the (distorted) sanna do not go away, as they are built into the body one is born with.
- At the Sotapanna stage, one permanently loses their ‘ditthi samyojana.’ They can ‘see with wisdom’ how the (distorted) sanna leads to kamma accumulation. But overcoming the three major categories of (distorted) sanna (associated with kama, rupa, and arupa loka) requires more effort.
- At the Anagami stage, one will eliminate the two samyojana related to ‘kama raga‘ or ‘craving for sensual pleasures. Their minds are no longer fooled by various types of kama sanna.
- An Anagami needs to eliminate rupa raga samyojana (craving for jhanic pleasures) and arupa raga samyojana (craving for samapatti pleasures). By this time, one has eliminated the three ‘ditthi samyojana‘ (responsible for rebirths in the apayas) and four ‘tanha samyojana’ (responsible for rebirth in higher realms). Removal of the remaining three ‘māna samyojana‘ (māna, uddhacca, avijjā) leads to the Arahant stage.
4. All those with magga phala realize that they must live with the ‘conventional reality.’ But their minds are increasingly ‘less fooled’ by it.
- I will try to write a bit more about Jaro’s post later. But I thought the above may help clarify some issues.
- Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
