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No. Those are different bhava for an Anagami.
- For example, a Sotapanna can be reborn as a human or a Deva. Humans and Devas are in different bhava.
- Bhava refers to different existences in the world.
“What about the uddhamsota-akanittha-gami ? This type of anagami reborn in all the pure abode, until the last one. In akanittha (the highest pure abode), they becomes arahant. Can we say that they have several Jati in the same Bhava?”
Can you point out the different jati within one bhava?
Yes. That is correct.
- Of course, even puthujjanas (ordinary people) can do the mundane version: Being mindful, staying out of immoral deeds/thoughts, and engaging in moral deeds/thoughts.
- The only difference is that a Sotapanna understands the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature to some extent. As you stated, having lokuttara Samma Sati.
Yes. The usage of “riya” in Ariya is explained the same way in #13 of “Nibbāna – Is it Difficult to Understand?“
The word “bhikkhu” comes from “bhava” + “khaya.” It could also be explained as “bhaya” + “khaya.”
- “Bhaya” means “danger” or “afraid”. “Khaya” is to remove.
- Thus, a bhikkhu striving to remove “bhava” (that gives rise to jati) is striving to attain Nibbana (end the rebirth process filled with suffering).
- In the same way, one who is working to remove the sansaric bhaya or the danger associated with the rebirth process can be called a “bhikkhu.”
- As we have seen, many Pali words (anicca, anatta, etc.) have many different but related meanings.
Also, see “Bhikkhu Sutta (AN 7.85),” which explains a bhikkhu somewhat differently but with a similar meaning.
- It makes no sense to translate bhikkhu as a “mendicant,” meaning a “beggar,” as in the English translation in the above link.
- That is disrespectful!
It is best not to try to translate words like bhikkhu, anicca, and anatta to English, but to use the Pali words and understand the meanings.
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1. A kalāpa means a group. All rupa are made of fundamental groups of matter ( rupa kalāpa.)
- The smallest is a suddhāṭṭhaka (meaning a pure octad with eight constituents). All other rupa kalāpa assemble by adding to suddhāṭṭhaka.
- The higher ones are navaka (with one more added to a suddhāṭṭhaka), a dasaka (with two more added), and eka dasaka (with three more added.)
- The hadaya vatthu and the five pasada rupa are all dasaka.
- See “Rupa Kalāpa (Grouping of Matter).”
2. All those fundamental groups (rupa kalāpa) make up every rupa in the world. A rupa kalāpa is unimaginably tiny. We cannot see even an electron or a photon, but they are made of trillions of rupa kalāpa.
- There are 4 modes of origin of rupa: kamma, citta, utu, ahara.
- All those arise based on the mind. Specifically, they have their origins in javana citta.
- Cittaja rupa (Cittaja comes from citta + ja, meaning “due to citta) are those produced by cittas as they arise. Part of the energy in javana cittas is “stored” in the “vinnana plane” to bring kamma vipaka later. Those rupa that arise later by that mechanism are kammaja rupa.
- Utuja rupa and aharaja rupa are a bit more complex. They are also discussed in the above post.
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Suddhāṭṭhaka discussed in Chapter VI of Bhikku Bodhi’s book referenced above. It is translated as “pure octad” (“suddhāṭṭhaka). Both words appear, for example, on p. 246 of the book (could be different in the pdf).
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TGS wrote: “From reading the paragraph, it seems like it would still be of benefit for a Sotapanna to mediate on netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ of the five aggregates and on the other dhatu’s like in the Mahārāhulovāda Sutta.”
- Contemplating the correct translation of “‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ ti” (i.e., pancupadanakkhandha is “mine, of myself, or can be beneficial for me?”) is part of the contemplation of the anicca nature.
- That must be cultivated at any stage, i.e., even at higher stages of magga phala. The anicca nature is fully comprehended only at the Arahant stage. One gets a glimpse of it at the Sotapanna Anugami stage, and thereafter, “anicca sanna” increases at the higher stages.
- As one’s understanding increases, one can connect it to the perception of a “self” or “I” (the Pali word here is not “attā“). The Pali words for I, me, and mine are aham, mē, and mama.
- This is discussed in the new post “Etaṁ Mama, Esohamasmi, Eso Me Attā’ti – What Does It Mean?“
As I understand, Jorg is on a trip to Sri Lanka. So, it could take a few days before he responds. I don’t think he will have any objections.
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Yes. This is something I thought about before. It is understandable why “suddhāṭṭhaka” does not appear in the Sutta Pitaka or the Vinaya Pitaka. I do not understand why it does not appear in the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
- But, of course, it is described in the Commentaries to the Abhidhamma.
- See, for example, Bhikkhu_Bodhi-Comprehensive_Manual_of_Abhidhamma,” by Bhikkhu Bodhi (2000). A pdf file can be downloaded (click the link to open the pdf).
Abhidhamma Pitaka was completed well after the Parinibbana of the Buddha. The Buddha described the critical concepts to Ven. Sariputta and it took several hundred years for the bhikkhus of the lineage of Ven. Sariputta to finalize the details. See “Abhidhamma – Introduction.”
Yes. That is another aspect of this issue. Thank you!
A lay person cannot “bear” the Arahanthood. If a lay person attains Arahanthood, he/she MUST become a bhikkhu/bhikkhuni within seven days.
- There are several instances of lay people attaining Arahanthood, but they died the same day for other reasons. King Suddodhana attained Arahantship on his deathbed and passed away soon after due to that illness. Both King Pukkusāti and the ascetic Bahiya Daruchiriya attained Arahanthood and were killed by two cows immediately afterward.
- I am not aware of a lay Arahant dying after seven days due to not becoming a bhikkhu.
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Yes. As we discussed above, the decision to take one’s own life is made with a high dose of “dosa.”
- If one is successful and dies before that anger dies out, one will likely be reborn in an apaya corresponding to that mindset.
Regarding Anathapindaka’s daughter (a Sakadāgāmi, per the link you gave,) the description there is as follows:
“Anathapindika had four children, three daughters and a son. Two of the daughters, Little Subhadda and Big Subhadda, were steeped in the Dhamma like their father and had attained stream-entry. And just as they took after their father in spiritual matters, so they did in worldly affairs; they were both happily married. But the youngest daughter, Sumana, surpassed even the rest of her family in her deep wisdom. Upon hearing the Buddha, she had quickly attained the second step of purification, becoming a once-returner. She did not marry, but not because she had renounced marriage. In fact, when she saw the happiness of her two sisters, she became sad and lonely. Her spiritual strength did not suffice to overcome her depression. To the deep sorrow of her family, she wasted away, eating nothing, starving to death. She was reborn in the Tusita heaven,.. “
It is difficult to assess her state of mind at the time of death, but a Sakadāgāmi can never have the mind of a being in an apaya.
- Suicide done with proper understanding is a different case. There is an account in the Tipitaka about an Arahant who took his life with the approval of the Buddha. Arahants live only for the benefit of others, to explain Dhamma to others. If the Arahant is in deep pain due to an unrecoverable illness, there is no point in living and undergoing such pain.
- Another example is Ven. Moggallana. He was beaten to death by a group of hired killers. Ven. Moggalana escaped twice from them using his supernormal powers. But when they came for him the third time, he realized that he was destined to die that way due to a strong kamma vipaka. Thus, he gave up and accepted being beaten to death without an angry state of mind.
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The Buddha stated it was A.
No need to drop this discussion. We are discussing the fundamentals that we need to learn. I am willing to continue as long as it takes.
1. Gati (pronounced “gathi”) that we need to get rid of are one’s “habits” (in particular, bad habits) and one’s (bad) character qualities.
- If one has “apayagami gati” it is likely that one will be reborn in an apaya. The tendency to engage in apunna (akusala) kamma increases with “apayagami gati.“
- Then there are “good gati” that lead to rebirth in the “good realms” at or above the human realm. The tendency to engage in punna kamma increases with “good gati.“
- Average humans (puthujjana) who have not understood Buddha Dhamma can be induced to both punna and apunna kamma, i.e., they sometimes have “apayagami gati” and have “good gati” other times (depending the circumstances.)
2. It is impossible to get rid of “apayagami gati” or to maintain “good gati” under certain circumstances (e.g., under temptations) with sheer willpower. One must “see” (with wisdom or with the understanding of the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana) the dangers of “apayagami gati.” With that understanding, one can also “see” that even having “good gati” under most situations is not enough to stop “apayagami gati” under tempting situations.
- When one “sees the above without any doubt,” one automatically loses “apayagami gati.” There is no need to worry about committing any apayagami deeds. Furthermore, it will block any previously acquired kammic energies bringing rebirth in an apaya. That happens with the removal of sakkaya ditthi.
- Simultaneously, one can see that even the cultivation of “good gati” is not enough to end the samsaric suffering. But a Sotapanna still has the perception (sanna) that sensory pleasures are worthwhile pursuing.
- Thus, a Sotapanna‘s next task is to get rid of that distorted perception (viparita sanna) by further contemplating the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature (Tilakkhana).
3. Therefore, it is imperative to understand the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana.
Now, we can take a look at the questions raised by Christian.
4. The main question was: How do we understand how a gandhabba instantly transforms into a different realm? Why doesn’t it happen when gandhabba is in a dense physical body? The answer below should also explain the other comments by Christian:
- For example, the girl in the video committed the crime and nothing happened until she died. She may have been thinking about committing it for a while. So, she had the “bad mindset” for may be even days. She may have been alive for many minutes, even after the baby died.
- The reason is the following: The dense physical body “protects” the gandhabba from being subjected to that transformation. Until the physical body dies, the gandhabba is safe even after committing an ānantarika kamma, like killing a parent. That same mechanism keeps an Arahant alive until the death of the physical body; once the physical body of the Arahant dies, the gandhabba comes out and instantly dies. Thus, even if that Arahant had many years of kammic energy left in the “human bhava,” the gandhabba cannot survive.
- An analogy is as follows: Think about a heater coil immersed in water. Even if the coil is heated until the water boils, it will not burn. However, if the coil is taken out of the water, it will burn. The fine/subtle body of the gandhabba cannot survive a “transformational event” like the emergence of an “apayagami gati” or “bhava ending attainment of Arahanthood.”
P.S.
5. Therefore, the observed phenomenon does not involve anything else, like the brain in a physical body slowing down the response to a sensory event or anything else. The main point can also be stated as follows:
- In Paticca Samuppada, bhava changes instantly according to the “upadana paccaya bhava” step.
- However, as long as the physical body is alive, it does not allow the gandhabba to undergo the transformation to the “new bhava.” The physical body may undergo some change that may last for a while (“temporary bhavanga” as explained in “Bhava and Bhavaṅga – Simply Explained!“), but the gandhabba is safe.
- For example, consider person X killing a parent. The mindset of X at that moment (“temporary bhavanga“) is that of an animal or a “hell being.” X’s physical body may undergo some change, especially the anger showing up in the face. But that mindset will calm down, and after a while, it will get back to the “temporary bhavanga” state. Now, if someone else killed X moments after X killed the parent, X’s gandhabba will come out of the dead body and be “burned,” and the rebirth in an apaya will take place.
- Now, consider the girl in the video. If that girl survived the crude abortion attempt, she would have lived a normal human life and also would have remained in the human bhava. The punishment for that kamma would have appeared at the end of her human bhava.
- It is good to contemplate the above-discussed situations to make sure to understand the issues involved.
Please feel free to ask questions if the above is not clear.
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There are three points to sort out:
1. We attach to things in this world (and thus move away from Nibbana) due to two main reasons: (i) Having wrong views about the world, i.e., believing that the world can provide happiness if we try hard enough. That wrong (or distorted) view is sakkaya ditthi. (ii) Having wrong (or distorted) perceptions along the same lines is called sanna vipallasa.
- Sakkaya ditthi goes away at the Sotapanna stage, starting at the Sotapanna Anugami level.
- Sanna vipallasa decreases in stages. starting at the Sotapanna stage and complete removal only at the Arahant stage.
2. The deeply embedded perception of a “me” is associated with sanna vipallasa. Removal of sakkaya ditthi does not affect that much the removal of the perception of a “me.” However, without the removal of sakkaya ditthi one cannot proceed to removing sanna vipallasa. Thus, only a Sotapanna can start the process of removing sanna vipallasa.
3. It is incorrect to translate the famous verse, “‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ ti” as “‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
- The problem is with translating atta/attā as “my self.”
- Even though in some contexts, attā indicates “a person” in relation to anicca and dukkha (i.e., in Tilakkhana), anatta/anattā ALWAYS means “not beneficial” or something to that effect. See “Anatta – the Opposite of Which Atta?“
- Thus, the correct translation of “‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ ti” is “mine, of myself, or can be beneficial for me?”
4. I will address this in detail in the current series of posts in “Does “Anatta” Refer to a “Self”?” starting with the next post.
