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It is correct to say that thiniking about chocolate can recall the “chocolate taste.”
– Even an Arahant can recall that taste. However, it is only a “DISTORTED sanna” for an Arahant. Arahant’s mind KNOWS that it is a MIRAGE and thus would not attach to it.
– For a puthujjana, that “distorted sanna” instantaneously leads to a “DEFILED sanna” and a “DEFILED vinnana”. The mind automatically adds raga and moha (for chocolate taste), and that is why it becomes DEFILED.The Buddha said that the mind is the fastest entity in the world.
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Most “haunting stories” are made up of one’s mind.
– There can be some rare cases. But those are more likely to be from petas (hungry ghosts).The best way to avoid such effects is to live a moral life and keep the household clean.
– Think about it this way. The “gati attracting similar gati” plays a role in all these situations. If the sink is not cleaned for days and food gets rotted
that attracts not only insects and bacteria but also beings in lower realms like petas (hungry ghosts).
– If one genuinely lives a moral life AND keeps the household clean, most such situations can be avoided.3 users thanked author for this post.
Yes. A gandhabba is a human without a physical body.
– When an average human dies, only the physical body dies, and the gandhabba comes out of the physical body. Unless the kammic energy fueling the human existence (bhava) is exhausted, that gandhabba will be drawn into another womb at a later time and will be reborn as a human baby.
– During the gandhabba existence, it can see, hear, and think. Thus, it can accumulate kamma via mano and vaci sankhara (with vitakka/vicara). The same ten samyojana and even anusaya are still with the gandhabba, and thus it can think just like a human, and thus will accumulate kamma with tanha. That is what is meant by “craving is the fuel.”
– It cannot accumulate “kaya sankhara” since it has no physical body.Yash asked: “Does an Anagami forget how a particular pleasure feels?”
An Anagami or Arahant would still taste the flavor of ice cream. They still get the “distorted sanna” of the flavor of ice cream or the lovely smell of a rose.
– But their minds don’t get to the next step of attaching to that and making it a “defiled sanna/vinnana.”
– Their minds have comprehended the fact that the “flavor of ice cream” or the “beauty of a person” is made up the mind according to the existence (bhava.) That is why while humans experience a “foul odor” from rotten meat/feces, a pig loves that odor and tastes it delicious too. Please read the new post carefully.“Does this affect the memory power/recalling power of the Anagami?”
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I don’t understand the first question. But the following may help.
In the second part, you wrote: “This is why I am struggling to understand the recent revision. According to it, the input term is generated by Avyakata PS. But I don’t understand how can one do stuff like walk down the stair (purana kamma) by only mano sankhara. .”
- Paticca Samuppada should not be used to describe things like walking down the stairs to the bathroom or actions like that.
- It is focused on kamma accumulation, mainly to generate kammic energy to bring about future rebirths in various realms. That is why it is “akusala-mula PS.”
The other point that could be helpful is the following:
- Each citta in a citta vithi with a specific symbol engages in a specific task.
- The presence of the seven javana cittas in a citta vithi means that the mind is engaged with that sensory input and generates kammic energy with raga, dosa, or moha.
- The presence of two tadarammana citta (T) at the end of the javanas indicates that the mind has “locked into” the sensory input. “Tadarammana” is translated as “registration,” meaning the mind has shifted from the “uppatti bhvanaga state” to take a new mindset. For example, upon hearing the news of the death of a close relative, the mind shifts to a “saddened state.” Then that mindset becomes a “temporary bhvanaga state” that could replace the “uppatti bhvanaga state” for hours or even days.
- See “Bhava and Bhavaṅga – Simply Explained!” and “State of Mind in the Absence of Citta Vithi – Bhavaṅga.”
- More references are in the new post, “Mūlapariyāya Sutta – The Root of All Things.”
“Q1. Could purana kamma have some minor kammic energy because of existing sangati?”
- Yes. They have kammic energy. But only javana citta can generate strong kammic energy, for example, to fuel future rebirths.
“Q2. If someone who is puthujjana just sees a wall at a given moment, how does that moment’s citta vithi go? Does it fall under one of the two below? Or does neither? (B: Bhavanga citta, K: Kiriya citta)”
- It is (a). AB BC BU PD CV Sam San V B B B B B B B T T
- No kriya citta (without any kammic energy) can arise in a puthujjana; see below.
“Q3. What is the citta vithi only a purana kamma arises? Does it fall under one of the two below? Or does neither?”
- It is neither of those.
- It would be “AB BC BU PD CV Sam San V B B B B B B B BB” since only javana citta can change the mindset even temporarily to T. If no javana citta arise, then the bhavanga remains unchanged.
“Q4. If purana kamma is only related to Avyakata PS, then the citta vithi (a) progresses by only Avyakata PS without Akusala mula PS?”
- By definition, purana kamma is the avyakata PS. Here, “avyakata” means no strong kamma occurs. That part is in any citta vithi, bringing a new sensory input.
- If the mind decides the sense input is of importance, only then an akusala-mula PS runs generating javana citta. Otherwise, the citta vithi would look like the one I stated in answer to Q3.
“Q5. If purana kamma is only related to Avyakata PS, then the citta vithi (b) progresses by only Avyakata PS without Akusala mula PS?”
- Same answer as above.
The next comment, starting with “Let me rearrange what I understand…” conflicts with my answer to Q3.
Finally, regarding the comment starting with: “Lastly, there is a different type of citta vithi unlike above, which can present kusala kamma properly. (Dosakkhayo’s thought)”
- It is correct until the following statement: “In the same way, the lokuttara alobha can be considered as lokuttara raga. Of course, the lokuttara alobha, adosa, and amoha cause kusala kamma.”
- That statement is not correct. Nibbana is reached by nullifying the ability of the previously-made kammic energies to bring vipaka. Thus, a kusala kamma DOES NOT make new kammic energies. A kusala kamma is an action that cultivates wisdom (panna) and breaks samsaric bonds (samyojana) or, equivalently, nullifies all anusaya; that prevents any previously-prepared kammic energy from bringing a new rebirth.
- Also, a javana citta can arise ONLY with lobha, dosa, or moha (or lokiya alobha, adosa, or amoha).
- Another way to say the above: Nibbana is reached via stopping “all preparations” with abhisankhara. Any javana citta rooted in abhisankhara (which starts at the “purana kamma” stage and gains strength at the “nava kamma” stage) can lead to the preparation of something in this world,” i.e., a sankhata. On the other hand, Nibbana is “asankhata,” i.e., “not prepared.”
Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts.
- It is not easy to explain concepts using any language. It becomes a bit harder with Tipitaka Pali since it is not just about the language, but also about entirely new concepts.
- I have been working on the next post for many days now. Since I am trying to convey the deep concepts in the Mulapariyaya Sutta, I find it extremely challenging, even though I have written several posts trying to provide the necessary background.
- So, what you say is true. But you will get better at it. Take the time, and don’t get stressed!
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Yes. Quite true.
- As we dive deeper into Buddha’s teachings, a solid background becomes necessary. Without a proper background, it will be an exercise of just reciting some words.
- To get an idea of that, please read the English translation of the “Mūlapariyāya Sutta (MN1)” in that link, where the translator substituted each Pali word with an English word. Can anyone understand what the English translation says?
- Many Pali words CANNOT be translated directly into ANY language. We must understand the MEANING of such Pali words and use those Pali words even in English translations.
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Yes. I deliberately avoided discussing “purāna” and “nava” kamma, because that requires a lengthy background.
- We are discussing the required background now. See the comment I just posted (December 4, 2023) in “Formal Meditation.”
- I will provide the necessary suttas as I proceed. If I give the names of the suttas without explaining them, that could lead to confusion because the English translations are wrong.
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Yes. That is good; be mindful all the time!
There is another aspect that will help a lot with reducing cravings.
- We have a “distorted saññā” that worldly things (tasty food, attractive things, and attractive people) have such “mind-pleasing inherent qualities.” But the Buddha taught that it is a “made-up perception” by our minds.
- That understanding will help tremendously with controlling cravings.
- It is a good idea for everyone to read the post, “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā” and the background material for it pointed out in the last bullet below. The subsequent post “Pabhassara Citta and Saññā Vipallāsa” was a continuation of that discussion. These are the only two posts so far in the new section “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).“
- In the next post, I will discuss the “Mūlapariyāya Sutta,” which describes the main reason for this “distorted saññā“ or delusion to arise in our minds. I touched on it in the post “Saññā Vipallāsa – Distorted Perception.”
- To start from the beginning of the discussion, the sequence of posts to be read is in the section “Is There a “Self”?” The first three subsections provide the necessary background. Take notes as you proceed. After that, I started the current series of posts in “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā),” where I will continue the discussion.
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It depends on what you mean by Anapanasati (and what you do there.)
- If you can explain how you engage in Anapanasati, I can comment.
No need to apologize. It was my mistake. I failed to catch it.
- I have revised the last part of #5 of “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa” as follows:
- A kusala kamma cannot be described by a PS process. A kusala kamma is a punna kamma done with the comprehension of Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana. That will eventually help us attain Nibbāna by following the Noble Path. That is also part of Satipaṭṭhāna/Ānapāna. See “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā)” for details.
I thought about this issue of Kusala-mula PS processes. I think the Sutta Pitaka does not discuss such a concept (as I mentioned in my earlier comment) because there is no need. I think it is better to remove the post on “Kusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada” permanently.
- Dosakkhayo’s final comment above: “I was trying to say that Avyakata PS could also have a namarupa.”
- Namarupa formation requires javana citta with raga, dosa, or moha. That happens in javana citta after the votthapana stage in the figure in my comment in the discussion on “Kiriya Citta.”
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Excellent! You got the main ideas/concepts.
- I have reproduced a figure in the post “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa” under #15. It shows a typical thought process (citta vīthi) that is started when eyes capture a “seeing event” (rūpa aramanna or rūpārammana).
1. I need to modify that figure a little. The “two B’s” representing “bhavanga” should be replaced with “bhavanga state.”
- “Bhavanga cittas” (AB, BC, BU) arise when the mind leaves that “bhavanga state,” and cittas start arising in the mind. See “State of Mind in the Absence of Citta Vithi – Bhavaṅga.”
2. What Dosakkhayo called “Neutral kamma” (under (i)) is represented by the part of the citta vithi before the votthapana (V) citta. In the Suttas, these are “purana kamma.” That does not mean “old kamma” as some people translate, but they are “initial kamma” that do not have strong kammic consequences (like rebirth) by themselves.
- What he called “Akusala (or pāpa/apuñña) kamma” (under (ii)) is represented by the part of the citta vithi before the votthapana (V) citta. In the Suttas, these are “nava kamma.” Those are the “new kamma” consciously generated by actions by the mind, speech, and body (mano, vaci, kaya kamma).
- I have not discussed that yet in the new series of posts. They will be discussed in “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).”
- Dosakkhayo’s statement, “#2 The first type of kamma yields results at that time only; they do not lead to “kammic consequences” in the future. Those actions do not have morally good or bad intentions,” is correct. The subsequent statement, “The second/third type can bring “bad/good results” at that time or in the future. Moral or immoral “intentions” that arise lead to the creation of an unseen “kammic energy” that remains in “viññāṇa dhātu” and can bring vipāka in the future” is also correct.
3. What Dosankkhayo stated in (iii), ” A kusala kamma is a puñña kamma done with the comprehension of the Four Noble Truths, i.e., by a Noble Person,” is also correct.
- A kusala kamma cannot be described by a citta vithi as depicted above.
4. Next, his statement, “So the neutral kamma is made by kiriya citta, and apunna or punna kamma is made by javana citta,” is also correct.
- Any action without a trace of raga, dosa, or moha is a neutral kamma.
- Apunna kamma are done with raga, dosa, or moha. A punna kamma is done with lower levels of raga and dosa due to not comprehending the “anicca nature.”
5. Dosakkhayo’s final question: “Can javana citta also make neutral kamma too?”
- No. Javana citta are defined as those arising with raga, dosa, or moha.
- Yes. The mind of a puthujjana (average human) ALWAYS starts at the pañcupādānakkhandha state. But they generate javana citta only after the votthapana stage.
Please feel free to ask questions. These are critical concepts.
P.S. I just revised the post “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa.” It has the revised version of the above figure.
Dosakkhayo’s question from his first post: “So, I think #5 should be revised.”
- Why?
- If it is not clear, the following are key points: (i) Only akusala-mula PS processes generate kammic energy. (ii) Kusala-mula PS processes do not create new kammic energies. They only help remove defilements (i.e., wrong views, perceptions) AND cultivate panna (wisdom or knowledge about how PS processes operate.)
I don’t see a question in the second post. You need to clarify what you are trying to say.
P.S. I just removed the post on “Kusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda” from the “Paticca Samuppada” section. It was an old post and needs to be rewritten.
- When I think about it now, it is unnecessary to even talk about a “kusala-mula” PS. It is not discussed in the Sutta Pitaka. It appears only in the Vibhanga Pakarana.
- The defilements in the mind (per the ten samyojana, seven anusaya, etc.) are removed by cultivating panna (wisdom). That wisdom mainly comes from understanding the worldview of the Buddha.
- That can be done in various ways, but (in my opinion) the best approach is the one we currently discuss in the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” However, understanding the posts there requires the background discussed in the following sections: “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind,” “Sensory Experience – A Deeper Analysis,” and “Sensory Experience – A Deeper Analysis” sections in that order.
Jorg wrote: “It was through these sermons that I got inspired to start a website that only focuses on sharing Dhamma in plain English. I actually don’t even call it Dhamma directly. I have good reasons for that, but I will share and explain in detail only after I have finished the current section I’m working on.”
- That is an interesting project. Please feel free to post that section (preferably in a new thread) once it is finalized.
