March 17, 2018 at 5:51 am #14578Tobias GParticipant
On the website accesstoinsight the asura realm is described as:
The demons — “titans” — that dwell here are engaged in relentless conflict with each other.
But in the post Sīla, Samādhi, Pannā to Pannā, Sīla, Samādhi it is said the asuras are aimless, lazy, having heavy bodies and depend on others. That seems not to fit.
In the Tipitaka are some passages where devas fight with asuras, which contributes to the description on accesstoinsight (e.g. SN11.3).
Can someone please clarify?
March 17, 2018 at 8:31 am #14580LalKeymaster
There are two types of asuras.
One type in the apayas: one of the four lowest realms. They are born there due cultivation of bad sankhara because of aimless, lazy gati (depended on others). These asuras are said live in the oceans and mountains on Earth (around us). They are called Vinipatha Asuras.
The other type are actually “asura devas” who live in the Chathurmaharajika deva realm. They are said to constantly fight with Tavatimsa devas headed by Sakka.
Also see, “31 Realms of Existence“.
P.S. I just revised “Asuras” to “Vinipatha Asuras” in the post, “Sīla, Samādhi, Pannā to Pannā, sīla, Samādhi“.
March 19, 2018 at 4:22 am #14628Tobias GParticipant
How can a being get a birth in a good realm when the “main gathi” includes aggression or anger or “creating conflicts” like the asura devas?
March 19, 2018 at 6:07 am #14629LalKeymaster
Human realm is also a good realm. Think about that.
In kama loka, aggression is there in both human and deva realms. Of course, it is less in deva realms compared to the human realm.
Only in brahma realms, aggression is not manifested. Of course, most of them have not removed dosa (hate): Those who get there through anariya jhana still have dosa as anusaya (hidden or suppressed); when they are reborn in the human realm, dosa will again be manifested.
P.S. Tavatimsa devas are sometimes called “sura devas” in comparison to “asura devas“, and the war between the two sides is sometimes called the “sura asura war”.
“Sura” of course is the opposite of “asura“: clever and “quick thinking”.
March 19, 2018 at 8:43 am #14635EmbodiedSpectator
Tobias :”How can a being get a birth in a good realm when the “main gathi” includes aggression or anger or “creating conflicts” like the asura devas?”
Lal: “Human realm is also a good realm. Think about that.”
Meaning that some asuras reborn here, among us ? And if i’m right their gandhabba keeps looking like when it was an asura?
March 19, 2018 at 9:46 am #14642y notParticipant
Tobias’ question: ‘How can a being get a birth in a good realm when the “main gathi” includes aggression or anger or “creating conflicts” like the asura devas?’ can be gone into when one sees what is meant by
‘a good realm’. Lal’s: ‘Human realm is also a good realm. Think about that.’ is at once a hint and the clue. A ‘good realm’ is such only in comparison with worse and much worse ones (the apayas), not only in the number of those realms (4) but ‘worse’ also in the long duration and the intensity of the suffering there.
As such no realm is a good realm. In a deva and brahma realm the main gati will still be kama and patigha and in the arupa loka avijja. In the human realm one can work on the root aspects of all three: lobha, dosa and moha in order to be in time free of ALL realms.
‘Human realm is also a good realm. Think about that.’
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.