Magga and Phala Event in Sotapanna

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    • #32381
      exist
      Participant

      Can you explain more about Magga and Phala in Sotapanna ? Is it happening simultaneously or it is magga first, and then for many years phala
      thanks
      eka s.

    • #32383
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Hello Exist,

      There are two possible issues that come into play and that may be why you are asking that question.

      1. When one first starts comprehending Buddha Dhamma at a deeper level, one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami. That means one gets into the path (magga).
      – But it may take many days or even many years for a Sotapanna Anugami to cultivate that path and to become a Sotapanna.

      2. There is another event that happens at the moment a Sotapanna Anugami becomes a Sotapanna. At the moment, a citta vithi (series of citta) flows and there are three cittas that arise towards the end of that citta vithi. One is the magga citta. That citta is followed by two phala cittas and that is the exact moment that one becomes a Sotapanna.
      – This magga citta is different from following the path (magga) as a Sotapanna Anugami in #1 above.

      So, it could take even years for a Sotapanna Anugami to get to the Sotapanna phala moment (i.e., to become a Sotapanna).
      – But there is essentially no time gap between a magga citta and phala citta.

      Please feel free to ask questions if the above explanation is not clear.

    • #32384
      exist
      Participant

      Thanks for your concise explanation.

      Is it possible that when magga citta occur, one gets into the path and become sotapatti magga puggala.

      Then a little while, maybe several years, the phala citta occur then one become sotapatti phala puggala.

      Please correct me if I’m misleading. My understanding on Dhamma is still limited.

      rgds
      eka s.

    • #32385
      Lal
      Keymaster

      “Is it possible that when magga citta occur, one gets into the path and become sotapatti magga puggala.”

      No. That is what I explained above.
      Magga citta is different from getting into magga (path). Getting into the path DOES NOT require a magga citta.

      Magga and phala citta happen within a split second. That is discussed in Abhidhamma.
      – See the explanation of citta vithi in “Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs

      “Citta Vīthi for Attainment of Magga Phala” is discussed at the end of that post.

      P.S. The transition from a pothujjana (average human) to a Sotapanna Anugami USUALLY happens GRADUALLY over days/weeks/months. During the time of the Buddha, of course, many got there within a discourse.
      – It MAY take some time for an average person to understand the Noble Truth of Suffering, Paticca Samuppada, Tialkkhana, etc. All those are inter-related.
      – When one starts understanding them, one realizes the unfruitfulness AND dangers in staying in the rebirth process.

    • #32387
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Hello exist,

      The following forum thread also touches on the topic you’re asking about.

      Post on “Gati (Habits/Character) Determine Births – Saṃsappanīya Sutta”

      Lal said:
      “1. When one first starts comprehending Buddha Dhamma at a deeper level, one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami. That means one gets into the path (magga).
      – But it may take many days or even many years for a Sotapanna Anugami to cultivate that path and to become a Sotapanna.”

      In the forum I mentioned, Lal explained what happens when one gets into the path, which happens when a person gets to the Gotrabu stage.

      After this stage, one may take some time to get to the magga citta, followed immediately with the phala citta.

      Lang

    • #32388
      exist
      Participant

      Ok, thanks all for your helpful information.

      I’ve already perform more research into this issue on this website and actually this is an old question :) and it is very clear now.

      Thanks again for providing me with many helpful information in this website.

      rgds
      eka s.

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