April 15, 2023 at 2:31 pm #44379
Perceived Pleasure ∝ Wanting ∝ mental vexation/stress ∝ (1/waiting time)
Delusion => Something perceived as very pleasurable => more wanting => more mental vexation/stress => less one can wait to have it.
Ignorance/Incomplete wisdom => Something perceived as somewhat pleasurable => less wanting => less mental vexation/stress => more one can wait to have it.
Complete Wisdom => Nothing perceived as pleasurable at all => No wanting => no mental vexation/stress => doesn’t matter whether it happens or not
There is a lot of pleasure in case 1, because, there is a lot of vexation/stress in mind. when one has what is desired, that leads to a temporary reduction of Stress. Which is falsely perceived as pleasure. This false perception leads to even more pleasure-seeking behavior. because one thinks that “It” is inherently pleasurable. This More pleasure-seeking behavior leads to even more stress. that more stress when temporarily reduced feels like even more pleasure.
As if this was not enough, now due to more perceived pleasure, the view/perception/thoughts that “This world is Pleasurable” get even more reinforced than before. which makes getting free from this addiction to false pleasure even harder.
The even more ironic thing here is that the more ignorant someone is, the more ignorant he/she becomes due to the self-reinforcing feedback loop.
The mind hurts itself more and more to achieve pleasure due to not knowing the true source of pleasure. (that the pleasure it sees as pleasure actually comes from a temporary reduction in stress it had.)
The more mind is hurt => the more pleasure there is when stress is reduced.
Arhants don’t have vexation, that is why they don’t feel pleasure.
This is why seeking pleasure leads to even more suffering eventually.
More suffering leads to even more pleasure-seeking behavior.
Pleasure comes from suffering & Suffering comes from pleasure.
This is the worst catch-22 of Sansara.
Sources: I learned this from Amadassana Thero and Lal.
April 15, 2023 at 4:48 pm #44381cubibobiParticipant
“Arahants don’t have vexation, that is why they don’t feel pleasure.”
To be more precise, we can say that arahants don’t feel mental pleasure (somanassa vedana). They still feel sukkha vedana (and also dukha vedana, but NO domanassa vedana as you pointed out).
A question about something totally unrelated: if we get a chance to take care of an arahant, to help make his/her physical life as comfortable as possible, then it is of tremendous merits for us, correct?
April 16, 2023 at 1:53 am #44386
Yes, that is correct.
I meant Mind made pleasures not physical sukha vedanā.
I should have used more precise language.
April 15, 2023 at 5:57 pm #44382LalKeymaster
Excellent analysis, LDF.
- Of course, as Lang emphasized, “pleasure” in LDF’s analysis is “mind-made pleasure” or “somanassa vedana.” Furthermore, “mind-made suffering” or “domanassa vedana” arise if one is unable to get “somanassa vedana” fast enough!
Lang’s question: “If we get a chance to take care of an arahant, to help make his/her physical life as comfortable as possible, then it is of tremendous merits for us, correct?”
- Of course. Taking care of an Arahant will have merits far exceeding the merits of caring for anyone except a Buddha. As a general rule, the higher a human recipient’s (Noble) status, the higher the merit.
- The same works the other way too. Harming a Buddha or an Arahant will bring the highest vipaka, etc. It is not possible to take the life of a Buddha. Killing an Arahant is an anantariya papa kamma. Even though killing an average human will have less kammic consequences, killing a parent is an anantariya papa kamma too. That emphasizes the importance of taking care of one’s parents.
April 16, 2023 at 1:56 am #44387
Furthermore, “mind-made suffering” or “domanassa vedana” arise if one is unable to get “somanassa vedana” fast enough!
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