Regarding Tobias’s first objection: The following is a more complete version that I wrote:
Color Is Intrinsically In Each External Object
1. If this is the case, that means we perceive the ‘true nature’ of the object, at least regarding its color.
- Since the color (and the beauty or attractiveness) is associated with the external object, it would not be possible to lose cravings for it without getting rid of it or at least by totally avoiding it.
Tobias wrote in response to that: “This is probably the crucial point where we disagree. The seeker of truth must “see with wisdom” that the things of this world are anicca, meaning they cannot be permanently obtained in the way one desires (anicca). Why should this be prevented if things possess certain intrinsic qualities?”
- The ‘anicca nature’ cannot be ‘seen with wisdom’ until what I summarized in my whole comment (previous post) is understood. At least that is my understanding; of course, one should make one’s own decision.
- If you look at the suttas in the Tipitaka, there is no direct explanation of what is meant by ‘anicca nature.’ P.S. There were no scientific studies those days to show that our perceptions do not portray the actual reality. But now we do: “The Illusion of Perception (Saññā) – It Is Scientific Consensus.” People took Buddha’s word purely on faith and because the teachings as a whole aligned with that worldview.
- Before I understood the implications of the ‘kama sanna,’ I also described the ‘anicca nature’ in terms of what Tobias described. Those descriptions hold, but I think the deeper explanation is the ‘kama sanna.’
- Note that avijja is triggered with any sensory input, even when looking at the blue sky or green grass without any cravings. A puthujjana has NEVER experienced even a single sensory input without generating avijja!
The second part of the above comment from Tobias: “Above all, we don’t know precisely how distorted perception really is. Or did the Buddha describe this in detail?”
- The Buddha taught that the perception of a puthujjana is 100% distorted. I have discussed that in many posts. And the scientists agree, too: “The Illusion of Perception (Saññā) – It Is Scientific Consensus.”
- That is why I wrote the following above: A puthujjana has NEVER experienced even a single sensory input without generating avijja!
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Tobias’s second observation: “I agree that the Sotapanna stage is reached by “seeing the unfruitfulness of attaching to the kāya”. I disagree that this already requires the understanding of kama sanna or that colors are not in external objects. That comes after Sotapatti is realised.”
- I have discussed the fact that it may not be necessary to fully understand the role of ‘kama sanna‘ to attain the Sotapanna stage. This is a tricky issue. One may be able to understand it on one’s own. But one must have been exposed to it at least in previous lives. That is what I tried to explain in the following extract from the post “Ānāpānasati – Mindfulness (Sati) Based on Buddha’s Worldview“:
Kāma Saññā Triggers Attachment via Rāga, Dosa, Moha/Avijjā
3. I just wanted to point out that what I summarized above in #2 is the ‘Buddha’s worldview’ that one must understand to become a Sotāpanna.
- However, some are able to see that without going through such a specific analysis. In the days of the Buddha, millions of people attained the Sotāpanna stage by listening to a couple of discourses. They had fulfilled their ‘pāramitā‘ in previous lives and only needed a ‘little nudge.’
- Attaining the Sotāpanna stage in the present day requires a real effort. On the positive side, we are also lucky to live in a time when modern science has just confirmed Buddha’s worldview.
