I appreciate the fact that Nibbid83 initiated this topic on his own. For a long time, I had wanted to engage in such a discussion to have someone clarify the ‘mainstream views’ presented on many websites, including Sutta Central. I specifically mention Sutta Central because its interpretation is very similar to Nibbid83’s, as I have pointed out many times in this thread.
Based on those discussions, I made the following summary:
1. Nibbid83 extracts the definition of assāsapassāsā to mean “in-breathing and out-breathing” from the Mahāsaccaka Sutta (MN 36) and uses that meaning in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) and the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22).
- Let me set up the backdrop for the verse that Nibbid83 quoted in the “Mahāsaccaka Sutta (MN 36).” I have linked to the place where the Buddha described his attempts to subject his physical body to suffering in the hope of ‘destroying the accumulated defilements.’ This was the last part of the six years that the Bodhisatta tried to subject his physical body to unbearable types of suffering.
- At marker 24.2 is where Nibbid83 quoted the following: ‘yannūnāhaṁ appāṇakaṁyeva jhānaṁ jhāyeyyan’ti OR ‘I forcefully stopped breathing.’ This is where the passage with ‘assāsapassāse‘ that Nibbid83 quoted: “So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, mukhato ca nāsato ca kaṇṇato ca assāsapassāse uparundhiṁ” OR ‘So I cut off my breathing through my mouth and nose and ears.’ Several verses there explain how he forcefully stopped breathing.
- That led the Bodhisatta to become unconscious. At marker 26.1, it states that Devas thought he was dead. It seems he stopped that practice after becoming unconscious, but continued the ‘torture session’ by withholding food.
- Then, up to marker 29.4, the sutta details the extent in suffering the Bodhisatta endured. Finally, he gave up torturing his body and started taking in food.
- So, it is correct to interpret ‘assāsapassāse‘ in those verses as ‘breathing.’ I hope everyone can see the context there.
- However, the context in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) is entirely different. In the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22) ‘assāsapassāsa‘ does not appear at all; see #3 below.
2. He also says Ānāpānasati means “in-breathing and out-breathing” even though the word assāsapassāsā itself does not appear in the beginning of the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118).
- The word assāsapassāsā appears later in the sutta at marker 24.6 “Ānāpānassati Sutta (MN 118)“: “Kāyesu kāyaññatarāhaṁ, bhikkhave, evaṁ vadāmi yadidaṁ—assāsapassāsā.” and then at marker 25.6 as follows: “Vedanāsu vedanāññatarāhaṁ, bhikkhave, evaṁ vadāmi yadidaṁ—assāsapassāsānaṁ sādhukaṁ manasikāraṁ.” Those are the only two instances of the use of the word assāsapassāsā in the whole sutta!
- In the beginning of the sutta, only the words assasati, assasāmī, and passasati, passasāmī appear.
3. In fact, in the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22),” the word assāsapassāsā itself does not appear anywhere!
- Again, if anyone can find it there, please let me know.
- Only the words assasati, assasāmī, and passasati, passasāmī appear in this sutta as well.
- I will explain the meanings of those words when I start my explanation.
4. Therefore, the claim that ‘breathing in and out’ plays a role in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) or the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22) is baseless.
- It seems to come from two main assumptions: (i) assāsapassāsā to mean “in-breathing and out-breathing” from the Mahāsaccaka Sutta (MN 36), even though that word appears only twice in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) and not a single instance in the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22), and (ii) equating Ānāpāna to breathing, as used by anariya yogis. It was Buddhaghosa who adopted that meaning from Vedic practices; see #11 of “Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga – A Focused Analysis.”
5. When I pointed out the fact that rupa loka Brahmās do not have dense bodies, and do not breathe, Nibbid83 declared that breathing is involved only in Kāyānupassanā, and that rupa loka Brahmās do not need to fulfill Kāyānupassanā, and they only need to engage in Vedanānupassanā, Cittānupassanā, or Dhammānupassanā (this is in his comment on April 28, 2026, at 4:07 pm).
- To maintain the validity of that assumption, Nibbid83 thus declared that Kāyānupassanā in Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) and the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22) is meant only for humans.
- Kāyānupassanā appears in almost all the suttās in the Ānāpāna Saṁyutta and Satipaṭṭhāna Saṁyutta. That is a lot of suttās!
6. As I quoted in #2 above, the second usage of the word assāsapassāsā appears in the Vedanānupassanā. Let me provide the direct link: “Ānāpānassati Sutta (MN 118).”
- Therefore, Rupa Loka Brahmās, who lack dense bodies and do not breathe, cannot practice Vedanānupassanā either, according to Nibbid83’s interpretation of assāsapassāsā.
- Thus, according to Nibbid83’s interpretation, Rupa Loka Brahmās cannot practice Kāyānupassanā AND Vedanānupassanā!
7. However, the following verse appears in the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)” at the beginning: “Ekāyano ayaṁ, bhikkhave, maggo sattānaṁ visuddhiyā, sokaparidevānaṁ samatikkamāya dukkhadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamāya ñāyassa adhigamāya nibbānassa sacchikiriyāya, yadidaṁ cattāro satipaṭṭhānā.“
- It means, “There is one guaranteed way for all sentient beings to attain Nibbāna, and that is Satipaṭṭhāna.”
- It does not say that Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22) applies only to humans (manussa)! It applies to all sentient beings (sattā).
8. Nibbid83 used a lot of space to discuss methodologies. What matters is not methodologies, but whether the explanations are self-consistent within a sutta and among all the suttās in the Tipiṭaka. Some meanings can be derived from phonetics, but it is much more important to recognize that meanings are contextual.
- This ability is part of the paṭisambhidā that qualifies one to be a teacher: “Paṭisambhidāpatta Sutta (AN 5.86).”
- Instead of assuming the same meaning everywhere (a common practice at Sutta Central as well), one should determine a word’s meaning based on context.
9. Let me address that right now by providing an example, because it is critically important. The root “sota” is used with three different meanings in the following three contexts:
- In ‘Sotāpanna,’ ‘sota‘ refers to the Noble Path; one who starts on the Noble Path is a ‘sota āpanna‘ or a ‘sotāpanno.’ Paṭisotagāmi (‘paṭi sota gāmi’) also means to bind to the Noble Path (‘sota‘) and follow it to Nibbāna.
- ‘Bhava sota‘ refers to the ‘stream of rebirth,’ exactly the opposite of being on the Noble Path. See “Mahaddhana Sutta (SN 1.28).” The word ‘anusotagāmi’ (‘anu sota gāmi’) means to stay engaged with (“anu”) the flow of the rebirth process (‘sota’).
- Sota in ‘sota indriya‘ means the faculty of hearing, entirely different from both of the above meanings.
- Nibbid83 took the meaning of assāsapassāsā as “in-breathing and out-breathing” from the Mahāsaccaka Sutta (MN 36) and used that meaning in the Ānāpānasati Sutta (MN 118) and the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22). That was an error. If Nibbid83 would like to discuss it further, he can start a new thread on that topic. It is a different topic. However, I have already explained it in #1 above.
10. Finally, it is imperative to emphasize the main assumption of Nibbid83: Kāya in Kāyānupassanā is the physical body.
- Thus, Kāyānupassanā means to ‘contemplate on the physical body.’ That is why, according to Nibbid83, Rupa Loka Brahmās cannot practice Kāyānupassanā or Vedanānupassanā.
- Furthermore, he equated kāya saṅkhāra to be ‘in-breathing and out-breathing‘ (same as ‘assāsapassāsā‘).
- By the way, the English translations of Sutta Central reflect the same.
11. In my next post on this thread, I will begin presenting my explanation. Since I need to work on the weekend post, it could take a few days.
- In the meantime, Nibbid83 is welcome to make any corrections to the summary above. If he chooses, he can copy it, revise it as necessary, and post it. That can be the baseline I can use.