May Taryal and all living of us living beings be and stay well.
“It is easy for someone without this issue to trivialize it as “just hormones/mental fabrication…” but that is inadequate to the person suffering from it.”
Really Taryal in the end the issue does lie in conditionality / fabrications / ignorance / asava’s / anusaya’s, wrong views, perceptions, thoughts and so on. But in a way like Taryal said even knowing all this “can be” inadequate to the person suffering from the mental health concerns. The true Buddha dhamma is never the issue / problem or the inadequacy. The inadequacy lies in the mind lacking wisdom and other possible karmic causality factors that can cause one to be and remain ignorant of the Buddha dhamma. To me, the inadequacy or problems we might face in this world or with others doesn’t truly fault with others or the outside world, but really with our mind or our wrong / distorted views, perceptions, thoughts about this world.
It’s my belief and observation treating or trying to help others with mental health conditions is one of the hardest and trickiest circumstances to treat or help with. There’s an idiom “walking on a tightrope”, I feel that’s what’s it like trying to advice or help others with their mental health concerns / conditions. It’s been my experience or observation that people dealing with mental health concerns seem to be more sensitive and any mistakes or inappropriate advice, things said or help given can sometimes have severe negative consequences for the person dealing with mental health concerns. When I first came across Taryal opening post, I thought it wasn’t going to be easy to offer the appropriate advice or help needed for Taryal current circumstances and then confirming so after seeing the progression of the discussion in this thread. I would like to complement what others have already said / shared in trying to help Taryal by sharing some mundane information and possible temporary solutions / approach that can be taken to hopefully help temporary ease / relieve some of the concerns Taryal is currently facing. To me the Buddha dhamma is always the long term / ultimate situation, but sometimes we might need to use some other short term / temporary mundane situations that can help the person to feel / get better / heal some first, then the long term / ultimate situation (the Buddha teachings) can be better or more easier applied. This is just my belief, if a person has a more internalized understanding and seeing of the Buddha teachings or have become a sotapanna, I don’t believe the person would suffer from any significant or lasting negative mental health conditions. Before writing this post I actually have been working on writing out some mundane materials / information / knowledge for Taryal and possibly others to take into consideration or use in their lay life. Since I have been writing this message (part 2), I had to put a pause to the writing (part 1) and will be posting it at a later time when it’s completed.
“Mentally, I can see myself slowly getting back to the normal state now that I can start my career and not be desperate about finding that missed connection.“
Working or being in a career will have its own physical and mental challenges. It’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows for any of us that’s starting a new career or even getting what one wants / desires and there will be up’s and down’s. I’m not saying this to be negative or put anyone in a fearful or negative state of mind but just trying to be realistic about the possible challenges one will / can face trying to maintain what one likes / desires or believe that can give us happiness or contentment. Taryal mentioned he’s 23 years old, I’m not sure what or how much experience he has working at a job or have experienced some of the challenges and difficulties one can face at a job / career and working with others. I definitely have some experiences and stories to share but currently too much to write / type them all out. Something quick I can say is that the usual outcomes of these challenging / difficulty situations / experiences helped facitated in correcting mistakes / errors I have made on the path and help make improvements to my learning and practice of the dhamma. As well as a measurement of how much or how little or no improvements I have made from over the years of learning and practicing the dhamma.
A current situation that just took place in my lay life where I lost or quit my current employment that I have been with for 3 and half years. I could say I put in constant effort to fulfill my duties and responsibilities and over the years felt I did a good job for the employer while being one of most senior not in position but respected and top employee working for the establishment. Never missed a schedule shift or called in sick, always punctual, did the best I could to incorporate the dhamma while carrying out my job duties and working with others. In the end I became expandable and since they don’t have any good reasons to fire me besides being highest paid in my position, the idea was to find ways to force me out or accept very little to almost no work. Instead of scheming ways, being fired directly would’ve make things easier. I could feel sorry for myself, be upset, angry, blame others or have unwholesome thoughts about the whole ordeal, but I can honestly say my conscious mostly feels clear and have very little unwholesome feelings / thoughts towards the whole ordeal. Don’t really feel like I have to forgive anyone or need to hold any grudges and just tried to see things for what they are which in mundane terms is just business. As dhamma, cause and effect that takes places place according to causality or P.S.
What helped me in believing of having a clear conscious or minimal unwholesome thoughts or wheeling of the mind is truly because of the Buddha teachings. As well from previous experiences working at different jobs and interacting with others and having achieved and worked in the career that I strived for with much effort, then leaving the very same career a few years back. From the beginning of my employment and even with other prospective employers, I already knew I was expandable and when finished using will be thrown out. For some weird reason, I’m actually mostly okay being treated in such a way and see how it’s such a common occurrence in this world. I learned from the Buddha teachings and also through my life experiences helped to confirm that I won’t find be able to find the happiness or fulfillment / contentment in whatever job or career I’m in. Because happiness or fulfillment isn’t out there in the world, but through one’s wholesomeness of mind / thoughts or an undefiled mind. To me, happiness or fulfillment is the sukha of nibbana and is different from the pleasure / gratification or assada that we gain through conditioned phenomenon. Now I mostly see and can understand that a job or career is just a tool to help one to sustain one in this world and can bring dukkha or pleasure / gratification but not as a source of happiness or fulfillment. A job or career or pretty much everything we do in life is only a means to an end but not an end to the means. However we can use these means to help work towards our own and others salivation, freedom, sanity and safety, but the ultimate solution is the Buddha teachings which help us to put an end to all the means.
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By sharing what just took place in my lay life, I hope it can help illustrate counting or relying on a job / career or really the pancaupdanakkhandha or anything worldly for our happiness or fulfillment is unwise. I’m not saying one shouldn’t strive to get a good education, job or career, be in relationships or even carrying out sensual pleasures. But expecting happiness or fulfillment from these worldly means is like chasing after a mirage but with afflictive consequences. We really need to understand and see for ourselves what all these worldly means / conditioned phenomenon cannot give us. A job / career, relationships, sensual pleasures and other worldly phenomenon with tanha might bring us pleasures / gratifications but also carries challenges / burdens / difficulties in obtaining and maintaining them. These challenges / burdens / difficulties can cause one to downward spiral towards unwholesomeness, drowning one in dukkha or can be used as a catalyst / experience to further advance and improve our understanding / seeing of the Buddha teachings helping one to become a better / more wholesome being over the long term. Working with or dealing with these challenges / attachments/ cravings / desires / hinderances is no easy task and will take some mindfulness, strong mind, the right tools and the dedication of wanting to become a better / wholesome person “over the long term”. What I mean by “over the long term” is that many of us dhamma practitioners are like toddlers that are just starting to learn how to walk. Before the toddlers are able to constantly stand on their two feet and walk, the toddler would’ve fallen down many times. Just like us dhamma practitioners even though we might already be learning and practicing the dhamma and before one attains the higher fruits of the path. We will 100% guaranteed make choices or carry out unwholesome deeds / kamma that might cause dukkha to ourselves and others, just like how a toddler might keep falling down possibly hurting themselves while learning how to walk. But no matter how many times the toddler might fall down and some times even getting hurt. The toddler never gives up on the idea of trying to stand and walk, which can be seen as an example of the dedication / commitment we make to make progress on the Noble 8 path or becoming a better / wholesome person over time. In the end what’s most important is that no matter how many times we might get hurt from our unwholesome tendencies or deeds, we need to have the strong commitment of not quitting or giving up on the Buddha teachings or the Noble 8 Fold path. Because the Noble 8 Fold Path or the Buddha dhamma is our only true salvation or the end to all our worldly means.
It’s commonly believed that the United States is one of the wealthiest and prosperous countries in the world where people can go to achieve “The American Dream” to find happiness / fulfillment. But despite how wealthy or prosperous the citizens of the country might be, there’s still an over 40% prevalence of mental health problems in the United States.
Where Mental Health Problems Are Most Prevalent
“My employment benefits include Health Insurance which I plan to use for visiting a Psychiatrist, and I really hope that they will provide useful prescriptions.”
I’m not here to encourage or discourage anyone from seeing a Psychiatrist or using prescriptions. If one does decide to see a Psychiatrist or take prescriptions, I hope to provide some (barely scratching the surface) information that can hopefully help others to make better informed choices and help weight the risks / adverse effects against the benefits of taking anti-psychological drugs. I highly recommend others to do their own research and not to blindly believe anything others including myself might say or share.
Everything you need to know about anxiety medications
Two sentences I would like to highlight from the article, as well note the word “SSRIs”.
“Suicide risk and antidepressants. In 2004, the FDA required Trusted Source all antidepressants to carry a black-boxed warning relating to the risk of suicide in children and young adults. People under 25 years of age may experience an increase in suicidal thoughts and behaviors while taking antidepressants.”
“Although SSRIs are a type of antidepressant, doctors can prescribe them to people with <u>anxiety</u> and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD).
Taryal asked: “Would it be a good idea to visit a psychiatrist or therapist?”
Personally for myself based on the things I have come to learned and observed. Besides for emergency cases / circumstances, I would “almost” never take any pharmaceutical drugs or go to a conventional doctor, especially to a Psychiatrist or any mental health therapist even if my physical or mental spirals downward. But this is just my belief and view and not saying this to discourage others from seeing any doctors, taking prescriptions or from doing / seeking out what they believe can help them. In regards to if it’s a good idea to visit a Psychiatrist or therapist, I would say yes and no. Yes in the way that I’m sure on a short term / temporary basis “some” people have been helped by Psychiatrists, other therapist and prescriptions and sometimes this short term treatment can help and is needed especially for those that are “completely ignorant” (which Taryal is not) of the dhamma . But by depending on any Psychiatrist, therapist, doctors or even prescriptions as a long term / permanent solution, I would say no, it’s not a good idea . . .
There are different views, opinions and information out there about Psychiatry, the benefits and risks of prescriptions. I hope to share some different views / perspectives or little of the much information that’s out there.
Please must watch / see this video: 5 Reasons To Avoid Taking Antidepressant Long Term
One doesn’t have to watch the whole video, but hopefully at least from 15:39 minute mark of the video to the end as in my opinon gives a superficial glimpse that barley scratches the surface of what our current modern medical system is truly about . . .
“In Buddha Dhamma, we talk a lot about sensory pleasures and how the craving for them shall be removed in stages. But I wonder if and how this applies to the issue of loneliness.”
It’s my belief just like how craving for sensory can be removed in stages, the issue of loneliness can be removed in stages as well. To me craving for sensory pleasures can be seen similar to desiring relationships with worldly people. If we think about it, isn’t seeking or desiring new friendship, relationships with other attractive / desirable rupa’s being one of the conditions is what gives us sensory pleasures in the first place? I guess it’s normal and natural for defiled minds to seek friendship, relationships, sensual pleasures and so on. The simple way I can think of to say how the issue of loneliness can be removed in stages is when one have a deeper comprehension and seeing of the dhamma or attained the fruits of the Noble 8 Fold Path = less craving for sensual pleasures. When there’s less craving for sensual pleasures = less craving for relationships or associating with others especially with people ignorant of the dhamma. If the craving for sensory pleasures lessens, wouldn’t the desire for relationships with worldly people be lessen as well? This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t want to interact or communicate with others, but only do so out of necessity, convenience, and convention or with a meaningful purpose like sharing of the dhamma.
In some way, I can understand why Taryal and many others including myself have the desire / craving for relationships or sensual pleasures. As long as one remains ignorant of the Buddha teachings, we living beings will keep seeking / indulging in sensual pleasure or relationships because we believe it gives happiness, contentment, comfort and safety but in reality it’s only gives pleasure / gratification, and no refuge. Sensual pleasures are dangerous and not recommended especially to indulge in them or even get attached to them but sometimes things cannot be force like giving up sensual pleasures or the desire for / seeking friendship / relationships when one is not ready to do so. Trying to do so forcefully or when one is truly not ready to let go can cause other sets of problems. Of course one shouldn’t give in or carry out every sensual pleasure that comes to mind or that presents itself in this world especially the severely harmful one’s that really harm oneself and others. Although sometimes using force has it’s time and place, giving up sensual pleasures or the desire / seeking to be in relationships should come naturally through the comprehension and seeing of the dhamma or attaining the fruits of the Noble 8 Fold Path.
I hope to use some examples from my life experiences to complement some of the things I mentioned earlier in this post about committing to keep learning and practicing the Buddha teachings no matter what happens in our life. As well to share the benefits the dhamma has provided to me especially relating to some of the unwholesome tendencies being discussed.
In my earlier 20’s I often seek friendships, especially relationships with the opposite sex. Often hang out with friends, go out to parties, clubs, do drugs, go to the gym, take protein shakes, over eating to try gain weight and muscles to beautify my body to boost my ego and many other worldly activities. Had my first girlfriend which later became a long distance relationship and eventually broke up. I remembered how painful it was when my first girlfriend broke up with me. Fortunately for me, the break up never destroyed my life or caused me a lot of pain and suffering over long or extended periods of time. After the break up and eventually some years later at my work place came across this girl that I really liked and I still remember how much craving (attachment) I had for her. Since we’re working together, we hung out sometimes together with our co-workers and eventually I ended up getting her phone number. I still can remembered the anxiety, nervousness, excitement I was going through when texting or communicating with this girl that I really liked. Although I don’t know the extent or can say have experienced the same extent of Taryal anxiety and especially panic attacks relating to relationships. But I do know what it feels like when we’re in love with someone and we really desire to be in a intimate relationships with them where the other person might not think of you the same way. Fortunately for me “at that time”, I was able to be in a relationship with this girl, whom is actually my wife now and we have been together for over a decade now. I honestly probably would’ve been heartbroken or devastated if I didn’t get the relationship back at that time. After some years in the relationship, I eventually came across the dhamma and it really took me a couple years after learning and practicing the dhamma before any noticeable changes to my mindset and behavior. Initially when I first started learning and practicing the dhamma, even though I was in a relationship, I still had more often than not thoughts / thinking patterns of fantasizing of having sex with another woman especially that was attractive to my gati.
This year will be about the 9th year since I came across the dhamma and PD. Started about 2 years ago or so, I noticed that whenever I see an attractive woman, my fantasizing / desiring of having sex with the attractive person I come across has decreased noticeably. What this mean is that even having learned and practiced the dhamma for a few years, where in the past my mind would more often than not have the tendency keep wheeling around or fantasizing for some time with strong emotions / energy attachment about the attractive person that I came across. Now days, I noticed these emotions / desires / fantasizing / wheeling thoughts has decreased noticeably. Before, I might fantasize having sex with or keep having wheeling thoughts about the attractive person for minutes or hours. Now days I notice that “the majority” of the time, my thoughts might not even get to the fantasizing of having sex stage when I come across an attractive person and even if it does get to such a stage, it might only last seconds compared to many minutes like in the past. I still feel some attraction / attachment to an attractive person, but the emotions / attachment to such rupa has lessened quite considerably. What’s amazing is that when I come across an attractive person and I get attached initially. The attachment quickly fades within seconds and my mind doesn’t keep wheeling with attachment or desires for this attractive person and like I mentioned the “majority” of time the thoughts doesn’t even get to the fantasizing having sex stage, although it still occurs but with way less intensity and wheeling of thoughts say compared to my first 2 years or so of learning and practicing the dhamma.
I have good relationship with my spouse and parents. I’m okay financially, physically and mentally healthy. I feel I’m almost living an ideal lay life that many people would like to live and would rate my life a 9/10. But what I have observed now, even though I got the things I wanted or be in the relationship that I was seeking / desired / wanted in the past. I can see how I’m still unfulfilled or dissatisfied, not necessary with my partner, but with sensual pleasures and nature of conditionality arisen phenomenon. I also have some idea that eventually I’ll be separated from what’s dear to me either through death of this jati or other circumstances. Even though I’ll probably feel some dukkha / domanassa when the time comes, but in a way I know I’ll be okay and won’t be devastated / distraught / tormented especially for extended periods of time when the time comes. Another benefit I found with learning and practicing the dhamma over the years is that now days, I’m okay with and actually prefer being alone most of the time than seeking out relationships or socializing / interacting with others. I feel if I were to be alone going forward, I believe I would suffer way less now than let’s say 5 years ago even when I was already learning and practicing the dhamma. All the noticeable positive / beneficial changes that I mentioned didn’t happen overnight or even in a few years. It probably took me 5 plus years or more of learning and practicing the dhamma before I noticed or became more aware of these positive / beneficial changes.
My effort and practice of the dhamma fluctuated throughout the years, sometimes putting in more effort, sometimes less. Indulged in sensual pleasures and broke the precepts even after coming across the Buddha dhamma. But no matter how much my effort and practice fluctuated over the years. Even when carrying out or while experiencing sensual pleasures, pleasant / favorable or unpleasant / unfavorable circumstances occurring in my life. I still did / do my best to contemplate / reflect on teachings since I believe the Buddha dhamma is the only ultimate and permanent solution to the dukkha we experience in this condition world and feel the dhamma in the end is the only home / refuge I can return to. I had / have no plans to ever give up on the Buddha teachings no matter what happens in my life.
One thing I can say is that the progress made on the path can differ between people. While it took me many years before I saw noticeable changes and how much the Buddha teachings have benefited me. For others, years are not needed before noticeable beneficial changes or the benefits the dhamma can have on their life. Depending on how well one keeps sila (virtue) in one’s everyday life along with coming across the true teachings and how much effort one puts into learning and practicing the Buddha teachings. Some people can gain instant benefits or even in a few months time, while some can take years and some never make any or barely any progress even after decades of learning and practicing the dhamma. I definitely have observed where others that learned and practiced the Buddha teachings barley or made no progress even after over a decade and longer.
What I’m about to say isn’t meant as advice based on the Buddha teachings nor as some form of resounding encouragement to seek out sensual pleasures or relationships. But from my thinking based on Taryal current predicament, I actually wouldn’t discourage Taryal from seeking out relationships or trying to socializing with others in different settings. I might even encourage him to explore some worldly / mundane activities or hobbies like going to the gym, outdoor activities and so on that might be able to help him feel better on a short term temporary basis or help distract himself from the mental tendencies that he’s currently experiencing and having a negative effect in his everyday life. I believe there are more harmful deeds or desires one can chase after / seek out than simply seeking or being in a relationship or even carrying out certain sensual pleasures.
But no matter what worldly / mundane activities or hobbies we carry out or while even being in relationships is to do our best to keep the Buddha teachings in mind of the drawbacks, dangers, the meaningless of sensual pleasures or conditioned phenomenon. Including building, maintaining relationships so that we’re not totally fooled or blinded to what this world / sensual pleasures or relationships cannot give to us. No matter how much one’s learning and practice of the dhamma fluctuates or what happens in one’s life. We must always come back to the Buddha teachings to keep learning and practicing the dhamma since it’s our only true salvation, protection and refuge.
I can’t say with certainty but I believe even if I was already learning and practicing the dhamma before the time when I first met the girl (now my wife) in the story I mentioned earlier. I don’t believe I would’ve been able to stop my lusting / craving / desiring for the girl I liked. It wasn’t until some years of learning and practicing the Buddha teachings and using the teachings to apply, contemplate and reflect upon my life experiences was what helped me reduce my lusting / craving / desiring for attractive / desirable rupa’s and relationships over time. Like I mentioned, now days I have little desire to seek out relationships including friendships which this lessening of desire came naturally without forcing myself to not seek out relationships.
I can’t say with certainty what will work for others, but this is my experience and what worked for me. I feel sometimes it’s not as effective by simply learning of or thinking things in a certain way without the experiences where we can apply the dhamma to these experiences that can be used as a catalyst to change our views, perceptions and thoughts over time to cultivate wisdom and eliminate ignorance.
A year or two back, I came across a comment on reddit that I thought was interesting and could be helpful / encouraging to others. I’ll share it here.
“Dhamma is good for everyone, all the time. Not meditation; not sitting down and closing your eyes, necessarily; but following the teaching of the Buddha sincerely. Increasing one’s generosity, virtue, capacity for patient endurance, and metta, step by step, are all very practically beneficial developments.
I myself was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 2 many years ago, before I found Buddhism. I was severely depressed and withdrawn most of the time, and my life was in a downward spiral. You can be sure I got plenty of therapy and medication during that time, which was mildly helpful; but I couldn’t hold down a job, and eventually could no longer afford either the therapy or the medication.
(Very) luckily for me, I had already begun to learn a bit about Buddhism at that point, and since it was my last hope I just dove in and started learning everything I could about it. I did meditate a lot at that time, but what truly began to make a difference for me was beginning to practice the virtue and generosity, and the restraint (one thing I’ve discovered for myself is that the lows of BPD are greatly worsened when one delights in the highs — When one remains calm while the mind is excited, one is not nearly as prone to despair when that excitement fades).
Practicing the Dhamma in terms of the gradual training, one gradually begins to find that one is actually building up a sense of self respect and integrity, one feels more friendly to others, and is able to take on responsibilities more reliably, when that is required.
At this point, the fact that I have been diagnosed with BPD is hardly more than a bit of trivia in my mind. I have the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha to thank for that.
Therapy and medication can aid a person who is suffering acutely, so that they might regain some composure and ability to think clearly. But the Dhamma is aimed at uprooting the suffering of existence itself, which is a problem that cannot be approached on the level of managing symptoms or relieving discomfort, no matter how profound the relief may be.
I say without doubt that this Dhamma is the only real cure for mental illness. Which does not mean one shouldn’t seek other kinds of help (and again I will stress that I do not advocate meditation as a cure for mental illness, but the actual development of the qualities of the path), but the gradual training can really make a long lasting difference in a way that nothing else can.
And let me stress too, that the practice of Dhamma is not some quick fix, and it is most certainly not easy — In some ways it is the hardest thing in the world. It absolutely does not fix your problems for you — On the contrary, you fix your own problems as you practice (little by little, as you can manage).
So yes, encourage people who are acutely suffering to seek aid if needed, but don’t turn them away from the long term cure — One can soothe acute pain, while also carrying out a more permanent treatment that takes one beyond the need for pain management.”
“If one is suffering from a mental turmoil, being able to give them support to get out of that would be such a beautiful thing to do”.
Taryal if you’re able to get well / heal from your current mental health condition. Your healing experience and how you got out of or at least how you reduced your mental turmoil will be valuable that can give support and help others to get out of or at least reduce their mental turmoil. May you Taryal and all of us living beings be, get and stay well so that we ourselves and possibly help others to be free of dukkha.
I will follow up with another post at a later time.
