Reply To: Validity of Āgamās

#53609
pathfinder
Participant

I have a basic to intermediate understanding of Chinese, having studied it for several years in school. However, I stopped learning and practicing about seven years ago. Despite this, I can still grasp the nuances of basic words, and I supplement my understanding with Chinese dictionaries (MDBG) and ChatGPT when needed. I have provided English translations alongside the Chinese characters. 

Also, I used ChatGPT to format this post, but I have written it before hand myself and copied pasted it to ChatGPT.

1. Saccavibhanga Sutta (分別聖諦)

The English translation is available in the provided link, but I will highlight some words to explore their nuances. Overall, the translation is quite accurate in its meaning.

First Noble Truth

The text describes suffering (苦, kǔ) in different forms:

謂生(birth)苦、老(old age)苦、病(sickness)苦、死(death)苦。
(Birth is suffering, old age is suffering, sickness is suffering, and death is suffering.)

  • 苦 (kǔ):
    • Can mean bitter (in taste).
    • Can also mean pain, hardship, or suffering in a broader sense.

Further elaboration on suffering:

怨 (blame) 憎 (detest) 會 (is suffering).
愛別離 (departing from what is loved) (suffering).
所求 (what is wished for) 不得 (not attained) (suffering).
略 (in brief), 五(five)盛 (grasping) 陰 (Im guessing aggregates) (suffering).

Quite similar to first noble truth

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Second Noble Truth – A Key Difference in Translation

The English translation provided reads:

“Good men, what is the noble truth of accumulating craving and suffering?
It means sentient beings truly crave the six internal sense-fields: eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind.start
If there is craving, dirt, defilement, and attachment, this is called accumulation (爲習).”

  • 爲 (wéi) – I am not sure what it exactly means
    • ChatGPT suggests it means “to act according to”, but in this context, it may mean “to be influenced by” or “to function as”.
  • 習 (xí) – Habit or conditioning.

Thus, 爲習 could mean:

“To be influenced by habit” or “To be shaped by conditioning” (suggesting the force of craving)

This is quite different from Tanha

Additionally, we notice that a key Pali phrase is missing from the Chinese version:

  • “yāyaṁ taṇhā ponobbhavikā” (The craving that leads to future lives).
  • This phrase, which emphasizes craving as the cause of rebirth, does not explicitly appear in the Chinese text.

2. Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta (非我)

The structure of the Āgama version closely follows the Pali version, and the English translation available in the link is generally accurate. However, I will highlight specific word choices.

Key Phrases and Their Nuances

  1. 非我 (fēi wǒ) – “Not I”
    • This is the Āgama equivalent of “anattā” (non-self) in Pali.
    • 非 (fēi) = Negation, “not”
    • 我 (wǒ) = “I” . Not that it is not the equivalent of “self”! It is not used this way in Chinese
  2. 色 (form) 非是我 – “Form is not I”
    • 色 (sè) = Rūpa (material form).
    • 非 (fēi) = Negation, “not”
    • 是 (shì) = “is”
    • 我 (wǒ) = “I”
    • This corresponds to the Pali “rūpaṁ anattā”
  3. 色 (form) 爲是常,爲無常耶?
    • “Is form permanent or impermanent?”
    • 常 (cháng) = “always, frequent, constant.”
    • 無 (wú) + 常 (cháng) = impermanent (the negation of permanence).
    • This closely follows the Pali version’s structure.

It corresponds structurally to rūpaṁ niccaṁ  aniccaṁ vā”ti?

  1. 比丘 (monks),若無常 (impermanent) 者,是苦 (suffering),不(is it not)?
    • “Monks, if something is impermanent, is it suffering?”
    • This line is nearly identical to the Pali phrasing.
  2. Key Phrase: 有我、異我、相在
    • This corresponds structurally to the Pali “etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā”, but differs in wording.
    • 有 (yǒu) 我 (wǒ) = “There is I/me”
    • 異 (yì) 我 (wǒ) = “Separate from I/me”
    • 相 (xiāng) 在 (zài) = “To coexist together.”
  3. 非我所如實觀察 – “Observing as it truly is: not me”
    • 非 (fēi) = “Not”
    • 我 (wǒ) = “I /me”
    • 所 (suǒ) = Marker for possession (“belonging to”).
    • 如實 (rú shí) = “As it truly is” / “In accordance with reality.”
    • 觀察 (guān chá) = “Observe, contemplate.”

We can see that the general idea is similar to that of the English translations, and the structure is somewhat similar, although there are variations. The individual words can’t also capture the full meaning but give a broad idea in the same direction.