Reply To: Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala

#23450
puthujjana
Participant

Thanks Lal.

Lal wrote:
It seems “upasampannassa” is used to indicate one who has attained upasampadā.
“Anupasampannassa” is still a sāmaṇera.

At least it is not a stretch to translate “upasampannassa” and “Anupasampannassa” to “ordained” and “not ordained”. And those translation from the well known monks are indeed fine.

And here is definition for upasampadā: https://suttacentral.net/define/upasampad%C4%81

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Lal wrote:
I have given sutta references for that on May 27, 2019 at 7:24 am.

As from the translation from English and Chinese, these sutta from my understanding, is self declare, just like a mirror for yourself to see and check your own attainment, I think that’s why it is called Dhamma Mirror.

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Lal wrote:
For example, the first three Buddhist Councils (Sangayana) involved only Arahants. Without declaring Arahanthood by oneself, how would others know?

It is OK for Arahant to declare to Arahant. :)

There is no offense
Anāpatti—
if he truthfully tells one who is fully ordained;
upasampannassa, bhūtaṃ āroceti,

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So, I assume my previous conclusion still stand.

So in conclusion, a Bhikkhu who claim attainment to lay people is breaking precept, whether truthfully (pācittiya 8) or falsely claim (pārājika 4).

PS: Noted regarding your concern on SC.

With Metta