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Hi, all
I have a question while reading the post.
1. “This is a more profound point connected to gati cultivated as a human. For example, those born as pigs accumulated the kammic energy to “be born a pig” by engaging in lowly and “morally rotten” deeds when they were human. Thus, they are reborn as pigs “to like rotten things.” – (Distorted Saññā Arises in Every Adult but Not in a Newborn #13)
- Summarizing the above paragraph, “Pigs did lowly and immoral (akusala) kamma when they were humans, so in their next life (apaya), they recognized rotten things, such as feces, as a good thing.”
- After reading this paragraph, I thought, “If it’s done a lot of immoral or lowly deeds, it will be set up (by kammic energy) to like dirty and rotten.”
2. However, as the recent post states, all substances consisting of pathavi, apo, tejo, vayo (including feces) are not inherent in any good or bad characteristics.
- ‘In contrast, a pig would receive a “distorted saññā” of an “attractive smell” with a pile of feces. In reality, feces is made of suddhāṭṭhaka (atoms and molecules in the language of modern science) and would not have “good or bad” qualities.’
- (Saññā Nidānā hi Papañca Saṅkhā – Immoral Thoughts Based on “Distorted Saññā” #4)
So, isn’t it purely a pig’s characteristic to like “rotten thing, like feces”? Of course, I know I can’t get the details of Kamma.
3. My question is: Is it correct to like the dirty and rotten things in the next birth (jati) just because it’s done a lot of lowly/immoral deeds? Because, dirty and rotten are all human perceptions (not absolute).
With mettā _()_
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I am happy you have grasped the key ideas regarding “distorted saññā.” I have made some slight changes to the format in your comment to make the points clear.
1. Your conclusion in #1 is correct.
2. Your conclusion in #2 is also correct. Even though suddhāṭṭhaka (atoms and molecules in the language of modern science) would not have “good or bad” qualities, feces made of them would be perceived differently by (the physical bodies of) humans and pigs.
- Kammic energy causes human bodies to produce a “bad smell” for feces because human birth originated from “good kamma.” Furthermore, if a human eats feces, he/she will get sick. The human physical body arises that way due to kammic influence.
- On the other hand, a pig’s body can thrive on eating feces, and a pig likes the smell of feces. That is a manifestation of the “birth matching the gati that led to it.”
3. So, your conclusion in #3 is correct.
- In another example, a lion’s birth is according to “vicious gati.” It is possible that the kamma that led to the birth of a lion was a violent crime like killing another human.
- On the other hand, engaging in moral deeds leads to birth as a human or a Deva. Cultivating (Ariya or anariya) jhana leads to the birth of a Brahma.
- “Bhava and Jati” arise according to “gati“: “Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control” and “Gati (Habits/Character) Determine Births – Saṃsappanīya Sutta.”
P.S. I just revised the topic of this thread to “The Connection Between Akusala and Rotten Births.” That matches the discussion better.
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Thank you for correcting my answer format clearly. I will also pay more attention next time.<br />
Ven. Lal said :– Kammic energy causes human bodies to produce a “bad smell” for feces because human birth originated from “good kamma.” Furthermore, if a human eats feces, he/she will get sick. The human physical body arises that way due to kammic influence.
Your explanation gives me great insight. Through your response, I understood as follows.
My understanding is :
1. Worldly things made of pathavi, apo, tejo, and vayo do not have an absolute good or bad qualities, but kamma has an inherent good or bad.(puñña, kusala kamma/papa, akusala kamma) Then, kammic energy creates a rupa (physical body) and a distorted sañña.
2. Rotten things are not inherently bad characteristics, but Humans are set up to recognize dirty and rotten things as bad, because human birth is caused by “good kamma“. And, a pig birth is set up to recognize dirty and rotten things as good because it is caused by “bad kamma”.
Is my understanding correct?
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Yes. It is. That is the basis.
It will become even more clear if you try to connect births to gati, as I mentioned in my previous comment:
- “Bhava and Jati” arise according to “gati“: “Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control” and “Gati (Habits/Character) Determine Births – Saṃsappanīya Sutta.”
There are more posts on this critical aspect. See, for example, “Patisandhi Citta – How the Next Life is Determined According to Gati” and “Saṃsāric Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Āsava).”
- When someone died during the time of the Buddha, people used to ask the Buddha about that person’s rebirth by asking, “What was the birth, and what was the gati that led to it?” I must have mentioned some suttas with that quote within those posts.
- Kammic energy (or Paticca Samuppada) dictates how the physical bodies are tailored to generate “distorted saññā” according to the “developed gati” and the corresponding birth.
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