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Dear Lal and friends,
This webpage has also cases of Rebirth, where the new life has already started when the old life is not yet finished.Link:
I also read a bit of the book of Dr. Ian Stevenson, who found similar cases:
“In most cases of the reincarnation type, the previous personality had died some years before the birth of the present personality. The interval varies, but averages, in Indian cases, about five years. The present case has the unusual feature that the previous personality with which the subject became identified did not die until about three and a half years after the birth of the “physical body of the present personality” ”Book:Twenty cases suggestive of Reincarnation, page 34, Ian Stevenson, University Press of Virginia .
On first source page I posted above, they also write about Maxwell being the past life of Einstein, where the overlap is 9+9 months (9monthd in womb, 9 outside ).
Link:
Science and Technology Reincarnation Cases-List of Additional Past Life Cases
Did another Gandhabba form the new body for taking over latet? Or can it happen simultaneously? Or is it the wrong interpretation?
I am curious about your opinion.
Best wishes,
Daniel -
I just read the case details in Ian Stevenson’s book.
Apparently this was a case where a baby, three and a half years old, was on the verge of dying. The Gandhabba of the baby left already, but another Gandhabba of a man who died in a nearby village was advised to “seek shelter” (by another spirit) in the dying body of the 3,5 year old child. The child recovered from the illness and was noticably changed in his personality.
This is only the summary. For more details, the case is well documented.
In this case, it is visible that what happened is a Gandhabba-takeover, not a simultaneous growth and living in two bodies. One might suspect that this is the case for the other cases as well, but I am open for any contrary evidence.
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It is an interesting aspect, Daniel.
I would like to focus on one case study to save time. If you can recommend one, please do.
As a general comment, it is possible for something like this to happen. But the following must hold:
1. A given gandhabba can be in only one body at a given time.
2. It is possible for a gandhabba to come out of a womb, and for another gandhabba to take possession of that zygote in the womb. -
Unfortunately, it is hard to find very well documented cases, or at least I am not advanced in that search yet.
The case I explained upon is a case where a gandhabba takes hold of a 3,5 year old child, whose old Gandhabba has left.
Another case is this one, that would be a good recommendation:
“https://www.reincarnationresearch.com/past-life-story-of-charles-parkhurst-penney-peirce-spirit-being-or-spirit-guide-past-life-identification-in-a-reincarnation-case/”The relevant part:”The compelling reincarnation cases of Charles Parkhurst | Penney Peirce and Alice Cary | Penny Peirce demonstrate a very interesting and important phenomenon, that a soul can animate two different bodies at the same time. I have termed this split incarnation, as it appears that the soul can split itself, or project itself, into different physical bodies at the same time, This phenomenon has also been called parallel lives.
Alice Cary, the earliest incarnation in this series of lives, was born in 1820 and died in 1871. Charles Parkhurst was born in 1842, at a time when Alice Cary was 22 years old. Alice Cary died in 1871 at the age of 51, at time when Parkhurst was 29 years old. As such, the lifetimes of Cary and Parkhurst overlapped by 29 years.
Parkhurst died 52 years after the death of Alice Cary, in 1933. Penney Peirce was born in 1949, 16 years after Parkhurst’s death, 50 miles from the location where Parkhurst died.
A very compelling Ian Stevenson, MD past life case involving split incarnation is: The Reincarnation Case of Helmut Kohler | Ruprecht Schultz
Did Cary and Parkhurst Ever Meet?
It is of interest to wonder if Alice Cary and Charles Parkhurst ever crossed paths. Though there is no evidence to support that Cary and Parkhurst ever met, it appears that they did come in close proximity to each other. In 1850, Alice, at 30 years of age, journeyed from Ohio to visit John Greenleaf Whittier at his Massachusetts home, not far from where Parkhurst was living on his family’s farm in Framingham. Parkhurst was as an 8-year-old boy at the time.
The two people had another episode of geographic proximity 20 years later, in the summer of 1870 when Alice Cary made her last foray out of New York City to visit friends in Northampton, Massachusetts. Cary was 50 years old at the time. Parkhurst, who was now 28 years of age, was living nearby in Massachusetts and was married in Northhampton 8 months later.
Parkhurst moved to New York in 1880, nine years after Cary died. Though it appears that the two never met, it is likely that Parkhurst knew of Cary. When Parkhurst was a young man, Cary was in her prime as an author, contributing to many popular magazines of the time. It is possible that Parkhurst read articles written by his split, Alice Cary.
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It is open to question whether Parkhurst underwent a change of Gandhabba when he was 29 years old.
Or whether one Gandhabba can control both bodies? Seems like a supernormal power to me. There are no reports about a “change of personality” in the article, relating to a Gandhabba-takeover at adult age.But I think that it seems reasonable that Gandhabba can enter “left bodies” even when they are fully grown, and, under appropriate conditions, continue living with them.
What do you think?
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Your link in the above post did not work, Daniel.
I found the following, which could be the same:
“Split Incarnation or Parallel Lives: The Reincarnation Cases of Charles Parkhurst | Alice Cary | Penney Peirce”Towards the end, it says: “Alice Cary, the earliest incarnation in this series of lives, was born in 1820 and died in 1871. Charles Parkhurst was born in 1842, at a time when Alice Cary was 22 years old. Alice Cary died in 1871 at the age of 51, at a time when Parkhurst was 29 years old. As such, the lifetimes of Cary and Parkhurst overlapped by 29 years.
– That is not possible. How can the same gandhabba live in two different bodies?The above link provides a link to a study by Ian Stevenson on the same subject:”Past Life Story with Split Incarnation, Suicide, Karma & Past Life Ability: Reincarnation Case of Helmut Kohler | Ruprecht Schultz”
It has the following accounts:
“Helmut was devastated by his financial losses. On November 16, 1887, after attending a celebration for the festival day called the Day of Repentance and Prayer, Helmut went back to his office. He put a revolver to his temple and shot himself in the head. He died on November 23, 1887.” AND
“Ruprecht Schultz was born on October 19, 1887, in Berlin, Germany to Christian parents, five weeks before Helmut Kohler died. As such, if this reincarnation case is accepted, it represents a case of split incarnation, where a soul can inhabit more than one human body at a time. Consider that Ruprecht was in the womb for 8 months while Helmut was still alive.”– That is also not acceptable because of the same problem mentioned above. One gandhabba CANNOT live in two physical bodies at the same time. That would defy logic.
– It also says, “Ian Stevenson noted that Ruprecht’s memories were vague at first, but over time, they became clearer and clearer.” That could be because Rupert came to know about Helmut Kohler’s connection and subconscuously tried to “match his events with the events of Helmut Kohler’s life.By the way, this topic would have been more suited in the gandhabba forum. Please pay attention to the Forum/Topic.
– It would be easier to search for past comments/topics that way. -
I agree with you on the Charles Parkhurst case.
The simultaneous controlling of multiple bodies seems far fetched. The overlap is big, more than 20 years.
From the case I read in Dr. Stevenson’s book, it seems however possible to me, that Gandhabba can take hold of a body that is already developed more than just a baby in the womb.
But this would have to mean that the original Gandhabba controlling the body leaves for some good reason. And it would imply a noticable change of personality reported by the people surrounding that body.
In the case of Kohler and Schulz, it is one of the cases where the overlap is small, maximum 1 or 2 years. Then, a change in personality might not be discernable.
Possibly Rupert subconsciously matched his past, or it was true. The original Gandhabba of Rupert’s body just left around the time of Helmut Kohler’s death.If you want, I can send you the report on the case studied in the book that I mentioned above, where the individual reports that he has been advised to “enter the body” of the 3,5 year old child by a “sadu” (holy spirit/Gandhabba).
Another interesting case is that of
It is interesting because there is a description of a conscious “entering womb process”. The Person describes his time as a Gandhabba, visiting his pregnant sister, adoring the child she gave birth to, and somehow finding himself being drawn into the body of that baby, taking hold of that baby.
I assume the original Gandhabb left.Here is a quote:”
Reincarnation: Nai Leng Enters Choate’s Infant Body“After a while, thinking that she was again asleep, I came out to get another glimpse of the child. She again opened her eyes and said the same thing to me. I went back to hide. I told myself that the time had come for me to decide once and for all. I was torn between two feelings. Although I would like to stay, yet I should go; indeed I must go. Before leaving, however, I wish to get another good look at the child. This time I dared not approach lest she reproach me once more. Thus, I poked only my head out. After obtaining a good look, I started to go away again.
As soon as I turned, my body began spinning like a top. I could not regain my balance. I tried to cover my head, face and ears with my hands before I fell unconscious. At that point I thought I was dead.
I did not know how long it was before I regained consciousness. I was wondering where I was. Concentration and recollection told me that not long before this I was Nai Leng. I felt myself full of vigor. Recalling all of the past, I wondered why I was in such a helpless condition. I felt somewhat frustrated.” (9)
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Lal, you may move the discussion to the Gandhabba forum. I am sorry for mixing up the two.
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Let me add another “inviolable rule” to the set of rules that I posted earlier:
The following must hold:
1. A given gandhabba can be in only one body at a given time.
2. It is possible for a gandhabba to come out of a womb (detach from a zygote in the womb), and for another gandhabba to take possession of that zygote in the womb. A gandhabba getting hold of a “dead body” of a full-grown person or even a baby is dubious.
3. A gandhabba cannot decide to take hold of a zygote, a baby’s body, or an adult’s body. That is determined by nature (laws of kamma).I think we should not get carried away by some of these accounts.
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Daniel and I had an exchange of emails based on the account of Jasbir on discussed by Ian Stevenson in his book “Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation”.
– It starts on p. 34 of Stevenson’s book.A short summary: Jasbir was down with a serious illness. When he recovered his personality changed to that of Sobha Ram who died around the same time.
– So it appears that Jasbir’s gandhabba left Jasbir’s physical body, and Sobha Ram’s gandhabba took control of that physical body.For that to happen, the “transition” must have happened quickly. A dead body starts decomposing quickly.
The following was my conclusion in my email to Daniel:
Jasbir’s and other witnesses’ accounts look good. But there is no real evidence of two personalities living in the same body or the same gandhabba living in two bodies SIMULTANEOUSLY.
That is because the dates/times of the death of Sobha Ram are not really known (May 23 or May 23, 1954.)
– Even more problematic is the uncertainty of the “change of personality” of Jasbir. Ref. 24 says it could have happened in April or May of 1954.
– Reference 24 on p. 35 has a summary of those events above.So, Jasbir may have had the “change of personality” after the death of Sobha Ram, i.e., in principle the gandhabba that came out of the DEAD BODY of Sobha Ram MAY HAVE entered the DEAD BODY of Jasbir.
– In principle, that would be possible as long as that gandhabba entered the dead body of Jasbir IMMEDIATELY AFTER the original gandhabba that was in Jasbir’s body left.Once a physical body dies, it starts decomposing right away. That is a critical issue.
To add to that: That applies to a zygote in a womb too. Sometimes, a gandhabba takes possession of a zygote but leaves (more like pulled out by kammic forces, due to possible mismatch) after a short while. Then it is possible for another gandhabba to take possession of that zygote (as directed by kammic forces) before the zygote is expelled from the womb.
“Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception”
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