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Hello ven. lal sir. I read the latest post titled, “Noble Truths on Suffering – World Operates on a Falsehood”. The post says at the end: “Once a saddhānusārī also sees the ‘anatta nature’ (that the world operates on a ‘false foundation’ and the ‘sensory pleasures’ are almost entirely mind-made), they attain the Sotāpanna phala moment.
On the other hand, a ‘dhammānusārī‘ sees how the anatta nature leads to anicca and dukkha at the Sotāpanna phala moment; of course, that is the quickest way. It is likely that those who attain the Sotāpanna stage quickly (like Venerables Sariputta and Moggalana) were ‘dhammānusārī‘.”As far as I understand story of venerable nanda who was half brother of buddha, he was extremely attached to sensory pleasures and he also had love and faith towards buddha. As per one version of story Buddha left his alms bowl in the hands of nanda while leaving after coming to visit him, so nanda, when he saw buddha, as he was his elder half brother, chased buddha in order to stop him. Some other version also says buddha left his almsbowl and left and nanda followed him in order to give him back his alms bowl. In any case nanda used to intensely consider that the sense pleasures are true and of utmost importance/essence. Buddha promised him that he will give him the nymphs from heaven, so he started practicing very hard but as he continued practicing (I heard it was asubha teaching or something like it), he started realizing the worthlessness or the false nature of sense pleasures and attained magga-phalas straight from sotapanna to arahanthood. So this seems more of saddhanusari way to me.
Based on this story or some other versions of it, I think 2 things were certain – nanda was extremely attached to sensory pleasures and he also had immense saddha/faith towards buddha. So buddha, used nanda’s extreme attachment to sense pleasures as hook and gave him some meditation subject and caused him to realize all the 4 magga-phalas. I also read the (one version of) dialogue between nanda and buddha where buddha is asking him why does he not choose homeless life which has so many advantages as compared to lay life and stuff, nanda was literally arguing that, he will live very moral life as householder/lay-person and engage in doing many good kammas towards buddha and his sangha. So nanda was having some wisdom its just that the sensual pleasures were ultimate reality or reality of essence for him.
So by any chance can we say the venerable nanda, the half brother of buddha, was likely saddhanusari?
I have another question regarding previous part of that same post, where it says, “Then, @marker 1.9, it starts discussing the ‘immediate supporting condition’ to reach Nibbāna, starting with vimuttī, which in turn is helped by virāga. The subsequent supporting conditions are nibbidā, yathābhūtañāṇadassana, samādhī, sukha, passaddhi, pītī, pāmojja, saddhā, and dukkha. Note that starting with dukkha, the sutta also lists each of the ‘immediate supporting conditions’ for dukkha. Those are jātī, bhava, upādāna, taṇhā, vedanā, phassa, saḷāyatana, nāmarūpa, viññāṇa, saṅkhāra, and avijjā.
Note that the latter set in red describes how dukkha originates; those entities are the steps in Paṭicca Samuppāda (in reverse order).
The initial set in blue represents the opposite, i.e., how one reaches Nibbāna, starting with saddhā (again listed in reverse order). Read this sutta carefully. The English translation in the link is good enough.
The sutta, in essence, states that a ‘saddhānusārī‘ starts by seeing the ‘anicca‘ (and ‘dukkha‘) nature. That leads to pāmojja, pītī, etc., as listed in reverse above, ending in Nibbāna.
Those people (saddhānusārī) confirm that initial partial conviction by grasping some aspect of the ‘anatta nature’ at the Sotāpanna phala moment. More on that below.”This is reminding me of stages of 4th tetrad of anapanasati: anicca -> viraga -> nirodha -> patinissagga. So can we say, this was the sequence followed by venerable nanda? Irrespective of ven. nanda followed this sequence or not, can we say this is the sequence followed by saddhanusari?
In the SN 12.23: Upanisasutta, which is linked in that post, buddha says that ignorance is the vital condition for choices, meaning, choices are there because of ignorance only. I assume by ‘ignorance’ the buddha means ‘ignorance of noble truths’. So if one is truly practicing anapanasati or in other words trying to conduct himself in a way which involves purifying one’s conduct, speech and thinking or in yet another words, as per the true teachings of buddha (as per the four noble truths), one should eventually and inevitably realize anicca, dukkha, anatta (noble truths). Am I correct?
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Very good.
- Yes. Your understanding that venerable Nanda was a saddhanusari is correct. In contrast, Venerables Sariputta and Moggalana were ‘dhammānusārī‘, who saw the ‘anatta nature’ first.
- By the way, most scientists and philosophers who understand that colors, tastes, etc., are not ‘real’, can attain the Sotapanna stage easily if they learn the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada. See the discussion in the other thread: “Post on ‘Noble Truths on Suffering – World Operates on a Falsehood’”
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You wrote: “This is reminding me of stages of 4th tetrad of anapanasati: anicca -> viraga -> nirodha -> patinissagga. So can we say, this was the sequence followed by venerable nanda? Irrespective of ven. nanda followed this sequence or not, can we say this is the sequence followed by saddhanusari?”
- Yes.
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You wrote: “In the SN 12.23: Upanisasutta, which is linked in that post, buddha says that ignorance is the vital condition for choices, meaning, choices are there because of ignorance only. I assume by ‘ignorance’ the buddha means ‘ignorance of noble truths’. So if one is truly practicing anapanasati or in other words trying to conduct himself in a way which involves purifying one’s conduct, speech and thinking or in yet another words, as per the true teachings of buddha (as per the four noble truths), one should eventually and inevitably realize anicca, dukkha, anatta (noble truths). Am I correct?”
- Yes. You are correct.
- In “ignorance is the vital condition for choices”, it is better to write that as “ignorance is the vital condition for sankhara“. ‘Choices’ is not the meaning of sankhara.
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By the way, most scientists and philosophers who understand that colors, tastes, etc., are not ‘real’, can attain the Sotapanna stage easily if they learn the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada. See the discussion in the other thread: “Post on ‘Noble Truths on Suffering – World Operates on a Falsehood’”
Wow, so they are actually close to being able to attain sotapanna stage, but sadly, their kamma doesn’t allow them, I feel sad about such people. I am following that other thread as well.
In “ignorance is the vital condition for choices”, it is better to write that as “ignorance is the vital condition for sankhara“. ‘Choices’ is not the meaning of sankhara.
So, what I understood as choices as 2nd step after avijja, is actually sankhara. I will keep that in mind.
btw sir, I tried this today only, when I was doing my normal beneficial work, thoughts of distraction came and I immediately recalled death and all the associated sufferings and immediately I felt piti throughout the body, literally. Off course the distraction went away like water becoming vapor and I got back to my clear state of mind. Contemplating on even 1st noble truth is so powerful and beneficial, I am amazed. I used to consider the 1st noble truth as very negative and discouraging thing long time ago but now I am realizing it is actually positive! Not just neutral but positive. I don’t know for sure but it seems to be like that now.
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Good. Learn more about the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada process. It explains how the mirage of ‘distorted saññā‘ arises in all living beings. A recent post: “Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda – Bhava and Jāti Within a Lifetime .”
- That will remove any doubts about the Buddha’s teachings and eliminate the first three bonds (samyojana) that bind one to the rebirth process. Those three samyojana are about wrong views about the world, i.e., that the world offers lasting happiness.
- Any happiness that a puthujjana feels at times is equivalent to the elation felt by a deer in a desert seeing the mirage of water at a distance. So, they happily run toward it, but of course, die at the end exhausted by that effort. See “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95)“.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Good. Learn more about the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada process. It explains how the mirage of ‘distorted saññā‘ arises in all living beings. A recent post: “Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda – Bhava and Jāti Within a Lifetime .”
- That will remove any doubts about the Buddha’s teachings and eliminate the first three bonds (samyojana) that bind one to the rebirth process. Those three samyojana are about wrong views about the world, i.e., that the world offers lasting happiness.
- Any happiness that a puthujjana feels at times is equivalent to the elation felt by a deer in a desert seeing the mirage of water at a distance. So, they happily run toward it, but of course, die at the end exhausted by that effort. See “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95)“.
I will read those posts again. Thank you for the answer sir!
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