at the end of this discussion i have made some conclusions:
The important role of views is often ignored or not given enough attention. Kamma is instigated by certain views, is related to views, determined by views, coloured by views.
Those views (good or wrong), they play a key-role in the outcomings. They make the difference in manifesting suffering/happiness, health/sickness, wealth/poverty etc). See, AN1.314 and 1.315.
So to treat all those results we can see (like suffering/happiness and sickness/heath etc) like they all arise because of kamma alone, is not complete. It is just a part of what really happens. We must not forget the role of views.
For example; our view of becoming happy instigate our intentions and deeds. We might have the view: ‘sense pleasures provide me with happiness’. From that view and associated intentions and deeds, arise results. Maybe one eats to much, drinks to much and gets ill. We might conclude…due to bad kamma! I belief it is more truthful to conclude, due to wrong view. Or, even better, we must see the total picture and then we see how this misfortune arose.
If one sees that results like suffering/happiness, wealth and poverty, health and sickness are strongly related to certain views, then, i belief, we are really dealing with things as they are.
The moralist in us prefers to see kamma as the root cause of everything wished for of not wished for. The wise in us prefers to talk about bad and right views.
Siebe,